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Old 11-03-2013, 04:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
While you cant earn God's favor, God still command obedience to his laws. And to be clear, I am not referring to the old ceremonial and sacrificial system laws, as those have all been fulfilled. Everything else still stands and if we Love God and Jesus will will obey the commands not to murder, steal, live in sexual immorality, lie, and worship other Gods.

Faith in Jesus saves you, but you still have a life to live after you make that commitment, so you have commands to live by to show you are his follower, that is how Christians are set apart from the world.
He doesn't command obedience to His laws anymore. We can't possibly keep the law, which is what you are advocating. We rest in the finished work of Christ and grace changes us so that we no longer do the things we used to do.

By promoting the law, you actually make things worse and increase sin. The purpose of the law was to show you that you can't keep it and show you the need for a Savior. Once we accept Jesus, we are righteous apart from the law through Christ's finished work on the cross.

1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

2 Cor 5:17
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:32 AM
 
4,428 posts, read 4,079,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
He doesn't command obedience to His laws anymore. We can't possibly keep the law, which is what you are advocating. We rest in the finished work of Christ and grace changes us so that we no longer do the things we used to do.

By promoting the law, you actually make things worse and increase sin. The purpose of the law was to show you that you can't keep it and show you the need for a Savior. Once we accept Jesus, we are righteous apart from the law through Christ's finished work on the cross.

1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

2 Cor 5:17
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I dont know where to start here but here goes

He doesn't command obedience to His laws anymore.

-No where in the bible backs this statement and if a Christian thinks they can go through life ignoring Gods commands, they are heading straight to the lake of fire. We are not under the curse of the law, but we still have to follow all the non sacrificial and ceremonial laws in the bible.

-If a Christian doesnt have to be obedient to Gods law, that means, homosexuality is okay, incest is okay, bestiality is okay, adultery is okay, idolatry, stealing, bearing false witness and murdering are all okay as well since obedience to his laws are no longer needed.

1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.


-This is answered with verse 57
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


-Once again it is stating we are not under the curse of the law anymore, but he doesnt encourage us to break the law either. We need grace because we sinned.

Rom 6:15
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


-This is quite clear that Christ is the completion of the law and it is not the law that saves us anymore, but faith in Jesus that does. We are saved by Christ righteousness, not our own.

2 Cor 5:17
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



- This like all the other verses states Jesus died for our sins and no amount of law keeping can save you, BUT the bible doesnt anywhere state that lawlessness is now okay now that we are under grace. Being saved means you should actually want to follow Gods commands so your good works are a reflection of your faith in Jesus Christ.


-Getting saved is just the start, after that God has command you are to follow and there are 1050 in the NT and all are 100% doable and dont require any ceremonial or sacrificial stuff either.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:59 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930 View Post
He doesn't command obedience to His laws anymore. We can't possibly keep the law...
That's not true. Jesus says that we keep his commandments:

" If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you". (Juan 14:15-16)

He taught the Law and the mandamientos we should keep to have eternal life:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22)
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
 
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Default The commandmets of death sentences, wars and slavery aren't God's commandments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I dont know where to start here but here goes

He doesn't command obedience to His laws anymore.

-No where in the bible backs this statement and if a Christian thinks they can go through life ignoring Gods commands, they are heading straight to the lake of fire. We are not under the curse of the law, but we still have to follow all the non sacrificial and ceremonial laws in the bible.
Hi SAAN. We, the Christians, find two different laws: the laws of the Old Testament, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, Christ's commandments written in the Gospel.

We are no longer under the curse of the law of the Old Testament, but we do have the commandments of Jesus Christ. And these commandments tell us so:


Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.


These commandmets of death sentences, wars and slavery aren't God's commandments.

Jesus Christ preached us the true God's Law, but Roma's emperors (emperor Constantine, IV century) don't wanted the Gospel's Law and they imposed the Old Testament's laws saying these laws were the God's commandments. Since then, the Gospel's Law was unknown to the christian people as the only God's Law and the God's true Law.

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Old 11-08-2013, 04:46 PM
 
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The prophets tell us that the scribes changed the Law of God. The prophets say so:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).
"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men"
(Matthew 15.7-9
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:54 AM
 
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Default The law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

The law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament. The Gospel says so:

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... " (Matthew 5: 17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that " this is the law and the prophets." This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets ") . And of this law did pass " not one jot not one tittle ", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:35 PM
 
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Default Jesus did not fulfilled the law that commanded to stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
The law of Moses Jesus came to FUFILL the law, his prophesy, and now we are under the new law- GRACE... first law is LOVE,,, the rest..
The law which Jesus fulfilled is the Law which He Himself taught in the Gospel. But many Old Testament commandments were abolished by Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ did not fulfill them.

For example, Jesus did not fulfilled the Old Testament law that commanded to stone the woman "caught in adultery" in the Gospel's Example:

"The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?" This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.

And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus looked up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again." (John 8:3-11)

As you can see, Jesus did not fulfilled the Old Testament law which commanded to stone the people. Therefore, Jesus don't fulfilled the Old Testament law.

The Old Testament commandments that Jesus did not fulfilled, them weren't true God's Law. The commandments that Jesus teaches us in the Gospel are the true Law that God gave to Moses.

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Old 11-16-2013, 05:43 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,906 posts, read 13,469,145 times
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The law of god is respect all life.

Everything else is man-supposed.
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
The law of god is respect all life.

Everything else is man-supposed.
Of course, the Law of God commands respect all life, but many Old Testament laws commanded that men make wars, kill other men and impose slavery. So what happened to the laws of the Old Testament before Christ?

What happened is what the prophets tell us, that God's Law was changed by the scribes:


"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:18 AM
 
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Default The true Law of God is the Law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
-Once again it is stating we are not under the curse of the law anymore, but he doesnt encourage us to break the law either
Hello, SAAN. True Law that God gave to Moses is not curse. True Law that God gave to Moses is blessing, because the true Law of God is the Law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel and not the laws of the Old Testament that are contrary to the Law of the Gospel, because they command to men make wars, and apply punishments, slavery and death sentences to people.

The true Law of God is the Law that Jesus taught us in the Gospel, because Jesus Christ teaches us that this is the law and the prophets:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .


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