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Old 10-15-2018, 07:45 AM
 
Location: central Florida
1,004 posts, read 363,599 times
Reputation: 262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post

WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?


The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...

* * * *

So which is the law that the Christians must follow?

The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW


This is a perfect example of ignorance of the law as demonstrated by a Christian with no knowledge of it.

The Law is not abolished, neither is it changed or redefined.

The Bible does not mention a "gospel law" in any way shape or form. Jesus and the apostles affirmed the Law and the Prophets as revealed in the Tanakh (Old Covenant). Nothing in the New Covenant has depleted or destroyed or redefined any part or word of the Old Covenant.

Matthew 5:17 has been deliberately misquoted.

Jesus' full statement is quoted as, "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Christians in the post modern church are not taught the meaning and requirements and the dictates of the Law and therefore are wholly ignorant of its meaning and its promise. They do not appreciate its fulfillment in Christ - according to the Law.

Simply stated, the Law requires the death of sinners.

Being merciful and not desirous of the death of anyone, God has provided His Law, which reveals a way to escape the penalty of death for sin. The Law allows a substitute death to pay the penalty of sin. If the Law is now changed or abolished as some declare, then there would be no way to pay the penalty of sin. We would all die in our sins.

The Law requires blood in payment for sin.

Blood is life and the Law provided a temporary solution through the sacrificial death of animals. Animal sacrifice was temporary and accepted by God only until a more permanent and effective sacrifice was made - ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

GOD himself became the sacrifice for sin - according to the Law.

But the death of Christ upon the cross isn't automatic. One must become personally involved in it - according to the Law. The Law still stands. It has not been abolished and it has not been changed in any way. It has been made perfect, not obsolete.

According to the Law, which is not abolished, a person is required to approach the altar of grace personally. It cannot be done by proxy - a priest. The Law states that in order to be granted forgiveness and mercy a person must approach the altar of grace personally and bring his or her sacrifice with them.

In the days of the old covenant, those who desired grace would bring their sacrifice with them. This involved the sacrifice of animals, which was temporary because it had to be repeated over and over again. Those who petitioned God for forgiveness and grace brought the sacrifice with them and presented it personally - according to the Law.

In the days of the new covenant, those who desire grace must bring their sacrifice with them. The perfect sacrifice is Christ Jesus who died upon the cross as a blood sacrifice for us BUT it isn't automatic. As we approach the throne of grace we must do so humbly and in repentance of our sins and bring our sacrifice with us - Christ Jesus (we appeal to Him and not ourselves or any other object or type of sacrifice).

Jesus is the sacrifice for our sins. Nowhere in the temporary sacrifice of animals or the permanent sacrifice of Christ does the Bible suggest that sinners can be their own sacrifice. By the Law we cannot.

According to the Law, which has not changed, no other sacrifice for sin is acceptable by God. Good works, contributions to charity, church membership or awards of valor on the battlefield mean nothing. Only the sacrifice for sin, which is required by the Law is acceptable.

Nothing has changed. The Law is the same and the Law still stands.

If it had changed, no one could be saved. Therefore I praise God for the Law which convicts of sin, points the way to salvation and sanctifies us in service to God.

At this point someone will say the Law cannot save. True enough.

A book on 'Do It Yourself Plumbing' cannot fix a leak. It does tell the reader how to do the job, what tools are needed and what procedure to follow to repair a leak - AND HOW TO KEEP THE LEAK FROM HAPPENING AGAIN. But the job must be done personally. Waving the DIY book at the leak will not fix the leak. You must do it yourself and the book tells you how.

In the same way, the Law convinces us of our need for forgiveness and grace. It directs us to the savior and even tells us how to ask God for forgiveness. Once we have become personally involved in participating in God's plan of redemption, the Law teaches us that we are saved FOR good works, not by them.

Each sinner must become personally involved in the process of asking forgiveness - according to the Law.
The Law cannot and WILL NOT do it for us.
It is a thing between us and God alone.

That is the Law.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Last edited by Choir Loft; 10-15-2018 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:07 PM
 
9,288 posts, read 3,192,594 times
Reputation: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
This is a perfect example of ignorance of the law as demonstrated by a Christian with no knowledge of it.

The Law is not abolished, neither is it changed or redefined.

The Bible does not mention a "gospel law" in any way shape or form. Jesus and the apostles affirmed the Law and the Prophets as revealed in the Tanakh (Old Covenant). Nothing in the New Covenant has depleted or destroyed or redefined any part or word of the Old Covenant.

Matthew 5:17 has been deliberately misquoted.

Jesus' full statement is quoted as, "I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." Christians in the post modern church are not taught the meaning and requirements and the dictates of the Law and therefore are wholly ignorant of its meaning and its promise. They do not appreciate its fulfillment in Christ - according to the Law.

Simply stated, the Law requires the death of sinners.

Being merciful and not desirous of the death of anyone, God has provided His Law, which reveals a way to escape the penalty of death for sin. The Law allows a substitute death to pay the penalty of sin. If the Law is now changed or abolished as some declare, then there would be no way to pay the penalty of sin. We would all die in our sins.

The Law requires blood in payment for sin.

Blood is life and the Law provided a temporary solution through the sacrificial death of animals. Animal sacrifice was temporary and accepted by God only until a more permanent and effective sacrifice was made - ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

GOD himself became the sacrifice for sin - according to the Law.

But the death of Christ upon the cross isn't automatic. One must become personally involved in it - according to the Law. The Law still stands. It has not been abolished and it has not been changed in any way. It has been made perfect, not obsolete.

According to the Law, which is not abolished, a person is required to approach the altar of grace personally. It cannot be done by proxy - a priest. The Law states that in order to be granted forgiveness and mercy a person must approach the altar of grace personally and bring his or her sacrifice with them.

In the days of the old covenant, those who desired grace would bring their sacrifice with them. This involved the sacrifice of animals, which was temporary because it had to be repeated over and over again. Those who petitioned God for forgiveness and grace brought the sacrifice with them and presented it personally - according to the Law.

In the days of the new covenant, those who desire grace must bring their sacrifice with them. The perfect sacrifice is Christ Jesus who died upon the cross as a blood sacrifice for us BUT it isn't automatic. As we approach the throne of grace we must do so humbly and in repentance of our sins and bring our sacrifice with us - Christ Jesus (we appeal to Him and not ourselves or any other object or type of sacrifice).

Jesus is the sacrifice for our sins. Nowhere in the temporary sacrifice of animals or the permanent sacrifice of Christ does the Bible suggest that sinners can be their own sacrifice. By the Law we cannot.

According to the Law, which has not changed, no other sacrifice for sin is acceptable by God. Good works, contributions to charity, church membership or awards of valor on the battlefield mean nothing. Only the sacrifice for sin, which is required by the Law is acceptable.

Nothing has changed. The Law is the same and the Law still stands.

If it had changed, no one could be saved. Therefore I praise God for the Law which convicts of sin, points the way to salvation and sanctifies us in service to God.

At this point someone will say the Law cannot save. True enough.

A book on 'Do It Yourself Plumbing' cannot fix a leak. It does tell the reader how to do the job, what tools are needed and what procedure to follow to repair a leak - AND HOW TO KEEP THE LEAK FROM HAPPENING AGAIN. But the job must be done personally. Waving the DIY book at the leak will not fix the leak. You must do it yourself and the book tells you how.

In the same way, the Law convinces us of our need for forgiveness and grace. It directs us to the savior and even tells us how to ask God for forgiveness. Once we have become personally involved in participating in God's plan of redemption, the Law teaches us that we are saved FOR good works, not by them.

Each sinner must become personally involved in the process of asking forgiveness - according to the Law.
The Law cannot and WILL NOT do it for us.
It is a thing between us and God alone.

That is the Law.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Spot on.... Blessings...
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:10 PM
 
210 posts, read 184,152 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
This is a perfect example of ignorance of the law as demonstrated by a Christian with no knowledge of it.

The Law is not abolished, neither is it changed or redefined.

The Bible does not mention a "gospel law" in any way shape or form. Jesus and the apostles affirmed the Law and the Prophets as revealed in the Tanakh (Old Covenant). Nothing in the New Covenant has depleted or destroyed or redefined any part or word of the Old Covenant.
Nothing has been abolished from the true Law that was given by God to Moses, and the true Law that was given to Moses are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. But from the Old Testament law many commandments have been abolished because they were not true commandments of God, but of men. Let's see some of the commandments of the old testament abolished by Jesus Christ:

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...." (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20:10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21:9)


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8:3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.

ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

Says the Old Testament:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

That's not what Jesus commanded us:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them,
My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)


JESUS DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW. BUT, WHAT LAW?

Jesus broke the Sabbath and abolished many other Old Testament commandments. So which is the Law which will not pass one jot or tittle (Matthew 5: 18-19)?


When Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law of God, many misinterpret it and say that Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. But that is a mistake, because Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, and we can see it clearly in the quotes I put of the Gospel.

Of the commandments of the Gospel, which are the true Law that God gave to Moses, no one jot no one tittle will pass. But the law of the Old Testament, all what Jesus Christ abolished, already passed, because they were only human regulations.


And it is that the true Law of God had been changed by the scribes, as Jeremiah tells us

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

And Jesus Christ revealed to us in the Gospel the commandments that were really given by God.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:05 PM
 
210 posts, read 184,152 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Pretty good post as far as I can see.......
Hannibal, did you understand what I said to Choir Loft?:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Nothing has been abolished from the true Law that was given by God to Moses, and the true Law that was given to Moses are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. But from the Old Testament law many commandments have been abolished because they were not true commandments of God, but of men. Let's see some of the commandments of the old testament abolished by Jesus Christ:

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...." (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20:10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21:9)


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8:3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.

ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

Says the Old Testament:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

That's not what Jesus commanded us:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them,
My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)


JESUS DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW. BUT, WHAT LAW?

Jesus broke the Sabbath and abolished many other Old Testament commandments. So which is the Law which will not pass one jot or tittle (Matthew 5: 18-19)?


When Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law of God, many misinterpret it and say that Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. But that is a mistake, because Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, and we can see it clearly in the quotes I put of the Gospel.

Of the commandments of the Gospel, which are the true Law that God gave to Moses, no one jot no one tittle will pass. But the law of the Old Testament, all what Jesus Christ abolished, already passed, because they were only human regulations.


And it is that the true Law of God had been changed by the scribes, as Jeremiah tells us

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

And Jesus Christ revealed to us in the Gospel the commandments that were really given by God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2018, 02:30 PM
 
210 posts, read 184,152 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbbi1 View Post
Spot on.... Blessings...
Rbbi1, I invite you to read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Nothing has been abolished from the true Law that was given by God to Moses, and the true Law that was given to Moses are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. But from the Old Testament law many commandments have been abolished because they were not true commandments of God, but of men. Let's see some of the commandments of the old testament abolished by Jesus Christ:

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...." (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20:10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21:9)


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8:3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.

ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

Says the Old Testament:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

That's not what Jesus commanded us:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them,
My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)


JESUS DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW. BUT, WHAT LAW?

Jesus broke the Sabbath and abolished many other Old Testament commandments. So which is the Law which will not pass one jot or tittle (Matthew 5: 18-19)?


When Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law of God, many misinterpret it and say that Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. But that is a mistake, because Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, and we can see it clearly in the quotes I put of the Gospel.

Of the commandments of the Gospel, which are the true Law that God gave to Moses, no one jot no one tittle will pass. But the law of the Old Testament, all what Jesus Christ abolished, already passed, because they were only human regulations.


And it is that the true Law of God had been changed by the scribes, as Jeremiah tells us

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

And Jesus Christ revealed to us in the Gospel the commandments that were really given by God.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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Proverbs 14:4 KJV: Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.

1If you see*your brotherís*ox*or*sheepstraying,*you must notignore it;*be sure to return it*to your brother.2If your brother does not live near you, or if you do not know who he is, you are to take the animal home to remain with you until your brother comes seeking it; then you can return it to him.Ö



1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Isnít*He actually speaking*on our behalf?Indeed,*this was writtenfor*us,*because*when the*plowman*plows*andthe*thresher threshes ,they should*also expectto share in the harvest.

Exodus 23:4
If you encounter your enemy's stray ox or donkey, you must return it to him.

Exodus 23:5
If you see the donkey of one who hates you fallen under its load, do not leave it there; you must help him with it.

Leviticus 6:3
or finds lost property and lies about it and swears falsely, or if he commits any such sin that a man might commit--

Deuteronomy 22:2
If your brother does not live near you, or if you do not know who he is, you are to take the animal home to remain with you until your brother comes seeking it; then you can return it to him.

Proverbs 27:10
Do not forsake your friend or your father's friend, and do not go to your brother's house in the day of your calamity; better a neighbor nearby than a brother far away.

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, to bring the poor and homeless into your home, to clothe the naked when you see him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Zechariah 7:9
"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: 'Administer true justice. Show loving devotion and compassion to one another.


You shall not see your brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide yourself from them: you shall in any case bring them again to your brother.

Exodus 23:4
If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.

Ezekiel 34:4,16
The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up*that which wasbroken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled themÖ

Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
be sure to return it


Deuteronomy 22:1-4.*LOST PROPERTY.

(1)*Go astray.--Literally,*being driven away,*as by wild beasts (Jeremiah 1:17), or by robbers. It is not simply straying. "I will seek that which was lost and bring again that which*was driven away" (Ezekiel 34:16), and so in many other passages.

Thou shalt not . . . hide thyself from them.--Comp.*Proverbs 24:12. "If thou sayest, Behold we knew it not . . . doth not He know it?" And*Isaiah 58:7, "that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh."

(3)*In*like manner . . . with all lost thing of thy brother's.--This is only a particular case of the second great commandment. "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

(4)*Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down . . . and hide thyself.--In*Exodus 23:4-5, this is put even more strongly. "If thou meet thine*enemy's*ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him*that hateth thee*lying under his burden . . . thou shalt surely help.......


The laws of oxen and asses are about you, 1 Corinthians 9.

The law is not what you think, there are no laws of oxen that are about oxen, they were made for you, there is a hidden treasure behind each law.
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:41 AM
 
210 posts, read 184,152 times
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Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
The law is not what you think, there are no laws of oxen that are about oxen, they were made for you, there is a hidden treasure behind each law.
You believe that all the laws written in the Old Testament were given by God, but the truth is that in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men that were added the law, because the law of God was changed by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

Then, Jesus Christ, who is God himself who became man, when He preached the Gospel, taught us the commandments that He had really given to Moses and the people of Israel.

You must understand that the Gospel is the one that teaches us the true Law of God and his merciful commandments.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:15 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,339 posts, read 684,328 times
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Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
You believe that all the laws written in the Old Testament were given by God, but the truth is that in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men that were added the law, because the law of God was changed by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

Then, Jesus Christ, who is God himself who became man, when He preached the Gospel, taught us the commandments that He had really given to Moses and the people of Israel.

You must understand that the Gospel is the one that teaches us the true Law of God and his merciful commandments.
I agree with you that Jesus came to reveal the heart of the Father which is love, but you then look at the symbols as if they are literal.

The good news is what gospel means, the gospels and the letters from Paul and the apostles (means sent) are revealing hidden things, not about the letter but the spirit. The things written are spirit and life, death is not physical death, meat, eat, trees, lamb, ox, sacrifice, blood, sun, moon, stars, virgin birth, Egypt, etc are not about the physical but are symbolic. Jesus was sent and inspired things to be written but they are not to be read literally. Precept on precept, line upon line..... the new and old together making a new creature. Jew and gentile.

Joh 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man going up where He was at first?
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not profit, nothing! The Words which I speak to you are spirit and are life.

Mat 13:13 Because of this, I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled on them, which says, "In hearing you will hear and in no way understand, and seeing you will see yet in no way perceive.
Mat 13:15 For the heart of this people has grown fat, and they heard heavily with the ears, and they have closed their eyes, that they not see with the eyes, or hear with the ears, and understand with the heart, and be converted, and I heal them." Isa. 6:9, 10

These words speak to the generation of the disobedient nation, that say they know God but donít, they change (then and now) the law and prophets into a religion of traditions, making the symbolic, metaphoric, signs, wonders into literal things and thinking those things are literal historical things. Mixing the flesh and spirit and believing in fables.



The things written are to and about the nations, the churches, they are not calling humans to repent of being human, it is calling the nation that says it knows God to repent of its sin, and not commit ďadulteryĒ with each other. The scriptures speak of heavenly things which is not about individual Christians going to heaven after physical death because they say we believe in Jesus, The 12 spiritual tribes each have their own calling and are not to covet each other ox, cattle, slaves ... the Jew (Judah) knows that Jesus the man is not God, the 10 tribes that are scattered are the Christian churches who have done worse than the Jew did.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,339 posts, read 684,328 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Proverbs 14:4 KJV: Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.

1If you see*your brotherís*ox*or*sheepstraying,*you must notignore it;*be sure to return it*to your brother.2If your brother does not live near you, or if you do not know who he is, you are to take the animal home to remain with you until your brother comes seeking it; then you can return it to him.Ö



1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Isnít*He actually speaking*on our behalf?Indeed,*this was writtenfor*us,*because*when the*plowman*plows*andthe*thresher threshes ,they should*also expectto share in the harvest.

Exodus 23:4
If you encounter your enemy's stray ox or donkey, you must return it to him.

Exodus 23:5
If you see the donkey of one who hates you fallen under its load, do not leave it there; you must help him with it.

Leviticus 6:3
or finds lost property and lies about it and swears falsely, or if he commits any such sin that a man might commit--

Deuteronomy 22:2
If your brother does not live near you, or if you do not know who he is, you are to take the animal home to remain with you until your brother comes seeking it; then you can return it to him.

Proverbs 27:10
Do not forsake your friend or your father's friend, and do not go to your brother's house in the day of your calamity; better a neighbor nearby than a brother far away.

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, to bring the poor and homeless into your home, to clothe the naked when you see him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Zechariah 7:9
"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: 'Administer true justice. Show loving devotion and compassion to one another.


You shall not see your brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide yourself from them: you shall in any case bring them again to your brother.

Exodus 23:4
If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.

Ezekiel 34:4,16
The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up*that which wasbroken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled themÖ

Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
be sure to return it


Deuteronomy 22:1-4.*LOST PROPERTY.

(1)*Go astray.--Literally,*being driven away,*as by wild beasts (Jeremiah 1:17), or by robbers. It is not simply straying. "I will seek that which was lost and bring again that which*was driven away" (Ezekiel 34:16), and so in many other passages.

Thou shalt not . . . hide thyself from them.--Comp.*Proverbs 24:12. "If thou sayest, Behold we knew it not . . . doth not He know it?" And*Isaiah 58:7, "that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh."

(3)*In*like manner . . . with all lost thing of thy brother's.--This is only a particular case of the second great commandment. "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

(4)*Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down . . . and hide thyself.--In*Exodus 23:4-5, this is put even more strongly. "If thou meet thine*enemy's*ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him*that hateth thee*lying under his burden . . . thou shalt surely help.......


The laws of oxen and asses are about you, 1 Corinthians 9.

The law is not what you think, there are no laws of oxen that are about oxen, they were made for you, there is a hidden treasure behind each law.
The law of oxen and asses are not about individual people, it is about the churches
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Old 11-18-2018, 03:39 PM
 
2,075 posts, read 1,475,796 times
Reputation: 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post

WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?


The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...
The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW


You need more study. Don't try to overthink the scriptures. It's too simple to complicate.
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