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Old 03-30-2014, 04:58 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

that have never changed.
True Law that God had given was given forever and never changes. And this Law is the Law of the gospel, because what God wants, and always wanted, is mercy. The true God's Law commanded mercy, charity:

"For mercy I want and not sacrifice; and full knowledge of God rather than whole burnt-offerings". (Hosea 6:7)

"O son, my laws forget not, and my sayings give heed to in your heart! For the length of existence and years of life and peace shall be added to you. Charity and trust - do not let them fail to you, but affix them upon your neck, and write them upon the tablet of your heart, and you shall find favor! And think beforehand on the good things before the LORD and men". (Proverbs 3:1-4)

The mercy was what commanded the true Law of God.

But the laws of the Old Testament are a law changed by scribes, as say the prophets:


"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,539,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
True Law that God had given was given forever and never changes. And this Law is the Law of the gospel, because what God wants, and always wanted, is mercy. The true God's Law commanded mercy, charity:

"For mercy I want and not sacrifice; and full knowledge of God rather than whole burnt-offerings". (Hosea 6:7)

"O son, my laws forget not, and my sayings give heed to in your heart! For the length of existence and years of life and peace shall be added to you. Charity and trust - do not let them fail to you, but affix them upon your neck, and write them upon the tablet of your heart, and you shall find favor! And think beforehand on the good things before the LORD and men". (Proverbs 3:1-4)

The mercy was what commanded the true Law of God.

But the laws of the Old Testament are a law changed by scribes, as say the prophets:


"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).
Amen.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:56 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Default Hello 101c. I'm glad for what you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
Amen.
Hello 101c. I'm glad for what you say.

God did not decree that men kill other men. These only are precepts of men. True Law that God gave to Israel is what Jesus Christ taught in the gospel, and the gospel does not command men to kill other men. The Gospel commands mercy and forgiveness for all.

Many Old Testament laws are contrary to the Law of the Gospel, and those laws can only be understood so as the prophets understood: as a law changed. The prophets tell us so:


"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).


And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men"
(Matthew 15.7-9
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:32 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Default Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament because they were not true Law of God.


Jesus Christ did not come to abolish true Law of God ... But Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament because they were not true Law of God...

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's true Law. The Gospel says so:


"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced, commits adultery" (Matthew 5:...)


The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments. These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

"Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were accustomed to swear in many cases, and so wrote it in the laws of the Old Testament... The Lord abolished these precepts of the oaths.


The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...." (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20:10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21:9)


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8:3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.

ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

Says the Old Testament:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

That's not what Jesus commanded us:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them,
My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,539,744 times
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GINOLJC to all.

I was waiting to see if any true Christians would respond to any of the video of Ahmed Deedat, “the Gospel are not”. and I’m glad of what I heard, or did not hear, from any christian.

lets debunk this claim of Ahmed Deedat. his point, none of the writer of the Gospels had their name signed to them. answer. because it was not their Gospels. here’s the reason why. #1. the Gospel is Jesus the Christ, it’s his Gospel, it's his name sign to it, the bible. and Jesus the Christ is the TRUTH. one cannot do anything with, or for the TRUTH, but only “WITNESS” to it. that's why the writers say according to. this is God's Gospel, his name is signed to it. he is the owner of his own words. #2. each writer gave their own testimony to the truth, and their testimony was recorded. when one goes into court. the court make a record as to all that is said. listen, the apostle Paul, most of his writing was pen by a secretary of his. only in a few cases he actually hand wrote some of his letters. and when he did he told us. the Preacher, and Physician, Luke was not an actual eyewitness, but recieved the testimony of those who did, supportive scripture, Luke 1:1 "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word. (see there you have it, Witness to the word). 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus. 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed”. God knows how to perfectly preserve his word, with certainty as seen here in the first chapter of Luke. see one can claim anything, and tell you anything. but God knows how to perfectly preserve his word. so that which was said by Ahmed Deedat is moot. an ERROR on his part, rest his soul. he Just didn’t know. that’s how many are mislead, the LACK of KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING. the blind leading the blind. and both will be in the ditch.

so I give a thumb up for those who did not take the bait of the enemy.

be blessed.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:51 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Default The Gospel is known worldwide since the first century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
God knows how to perfectly preserve his word, with certainty as seen here in the first chapter of Luke. see one can claim anything, and tell you anything. but God knows how to perfectly preserve his word. so that which was said by Ahmed Deedat is moot. an ERROR on his part, rest his soul. he Just didn’t know. that’s how many are mislead, the LACK of KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING. the blind leading the blind. and both will be in the ditch.
Hello friend. Interpretations of the Gospel there are many, but the early Christians had received the Gospel and the Gospel was preached by all peoples of the known world.

The Gospel is known in the world since the first century, and his word is known in every village. A whole world watches the word of the Gospel, and, above all, is God who watches over the Word of the Gospel. The Gospel tells us so:


"Id por todo el mundo y predicad el evangelio a toda criatura. El que creyere y fuere bautizado, será salvo; mas el que no creyere, será condenado". (Marcos 16:15-16).


Last edited by Porque77; 04-04-2014 at 05:07 PM..
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,539,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Hello friend. Interpretations of the Gospel there are many, but the early Christians had received the Gospel and the Gospel was preached by all peoples of the known world.

The Gospel is known in the world since the first century, and his word is known in every village. A whole world watches the word of the Gospel, and, above all, is God who watches over the Word of the Gospel. The Gospel tells us so:

"Id por todo el mundo y predicad el evangelio a toda criatura. El que creyere y fuere bautizado, será salvo; mas el que no creyere, será condenado". (Marcos 16:15-16).
GINOLJC, to all.

2 Porque77, thanks for the word "friend", what a refreshing word. and to you, hello my FRIEND. you're correct. the gospel is known in the world, and every village. not only since the first century, but from the day of Pentecost. when all of God's people from under heave heard the gospel. this is backed up by the apostle Paul. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister”. yes every creature under heaven. Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language”. on the day of Pentecost was kind of gathering of that which was scattered. all nation under heaven was represented.

that is great insight on your part. and yes, God watches over the word of his Gospel. again, one must have spiritual eyes to see that.

be blessed.


I would like to asks you something, if you don't mind. Porque, is that Spanish, or French?.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:20 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Default The Law of the Gospel is the true Law that God gave to Moses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77
Hello friend. Interpretations of the Gospel there are many, but the early Christians had received the Gospel and the Gospel was preached by all peoples of the known world.

The Gospel is known in the world since the first century, and his word is known in every village. A whole world watches the word of the Gospel, and, above all, is God who watches over the Word of the Gospel. The Gospel tells us so:
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC, to all.

2 Porque77, thanks for the word "friend", what a refreshing word. and to you, hello my FRIEND. you're correct. the gospel is known in the world, and every village. not only since the first century, but from the day of Pentecost. when all of God's people from under heave heard the gospel. this is backed up by the apostle Paul. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister”. yes every creature under heaven. Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language”. on the day of Pentecost was kind of gathering of that which was scattered. all nation under heaven was represented.

that is great insight on your part. and yes, God watches over the word of his Gospel. again, one must have spiritual eyes to see that.

be blessed.
That's right, my friend. The Gospel has been known among all peoples of the world and is the wonderful teaching of God. It also teaches the true Law of God. The Law of the Gospel abolished many commandments of the Old Testament. And those commandments were abolished because they were not commandments of God

The Law of the Gospel is the true Law that God gave to Moses. The scriptures tell us so:

"Moreover, brethren, I would not have ye ignorant of how all of our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. And all ate the same spiritual meat, and all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ". (1 Corinthians 10: 1-4)

"For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?......... For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it". (Hebrews 3: 16 - 4: 2)

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Old 04-12-2014, 01:04 PM
 
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Default Jesus Christ saved us by grace, but commands us to fulfill the Gospel's commandments

The Law and the Grace.

The Law and the commandments of Christ are not against grace, because Christ's commandments are all merciful, and mercy is Grace.

Jesus Christ saved us by grace, but commands us to fulfill the commandments of the Gospel. The Gospel says so:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many commandments of the Old Testament commanded death sentences, wars and slavery.
And those commandments weren't really God's Law.

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Old 04-18-2014, 05:12 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
The Gospel has been known among all peoples of the world and is the wonderful teaching of God. It also teaches the true Law of God. The Law of the Gospel abolished many commandments of the Old Testament. And those commandments were abolished because they were not commandments of God

The Law of the Gospel is the true Law that God gave to Moses. The scriptures tell us so:

"Moreover, brethren, I would not have ye ignorant of how all of our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. And all ate the same spiritual meat, and all drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ". (1 Corinthians 10: 1-4)

"For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?......... For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it". (Hebrews 3: 16 - 4: 2)
Jesus Christ tell us that the Law and the prophets is this:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)
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