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Old 10-17-2013, 07:38 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,588 times
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WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?


The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...

The commandments of the Gospel, are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

What God wants is the mercy

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent" (Matthew 12:7)

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

Jesus speaks to the pharisees about the Law

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands” (Matthew 22:34-40)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19:16-22)

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

So which is the law that the Christians must follow?

The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW



Last edited by Porque77; 10-17-2013 at 07:52 PM..
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:06 PM
 
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God's law is the 10 commandments.


Jesus' command to love thy Father is to be obedient to the Father.


To be obedient to the Father is to follow the Father's commandments.







Do you understand that Jesus (Christ) is the Word? John 1:1
The Word was With God in the beginning, therefore the 10 commandments belong to Christ (Jesus).

Why would Christ Jesus contradict himself?


Pharisaical law is completely irrelevant and is to be dismissed.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
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He came to remove the judgement by others by putting sins/commandments in remission and allowing us time to mature in the ways of love by following our hearts and not just some rules/laws. The rules are written upon our hearts---we love, and the more we grow to love the more we will automatically follow those commandments. We don't judge another for falling--we pick them up.

He said to test the spirits--I think this means that if we insist on trying the ways of the world we'll soon realize that they are wrong and return back to His ways--this is for those who do love and seek Him, for those who do not, this is the separation and division. The sword of truth divides us.

The commandments are just basically rules that mean------DO NOT do anything to another human that constitutes abuse or harm to them. Do not hurt anything that has the potential to love you. I have moved this on to animals and have become a vegetarian. I have extended the right to life in my heart.

There are some that get enjoyment and satisfaction from abusing and harming others--shake the dust and move on when possible--do not fight them, it's what they want, enjoy and are trying to get. Pacifism is the only way to move.
Just like some children, if you ignore their wrong behavior then they'll give up---true of some people, rebuke sharply and walk. I fight only if attacked with no way out--it's all some understand. I do not provoke a fight.

We are all given our own space upon the earth--all within our arms reach. I'm learning to be more self-contained, learning to not care about stuff--had stuff stolen and laughed about it. My arms are open wide to all that love, if it's not love that comes within my arms, then they are not welcome---my space and I own no other space. Take anything you want of mine, say anything and I can take it, but do not invade my space unless you bring love. Hit me and I will deck you.

If what another is doing does not harm them or you---mind your own business and pluck the beams from your own eyes. We ALL live in glass houses.

Sorry about preaching to you. I'm developing an attitude.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:20 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,588 times
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Default The apostles and early Christians wrote the Gospel in books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
...and allowing us time to mature in the ways of love by following our hearts and not just some rules/laws. The rules are written upon our hearts---we love, and the more we grow to love the more we will automatically follow those commandments. We don't judge another for falling--we pick them up...........

Sorry about preaching to you. I'm developing an attitude.
Hello, Sheila. It is true that God would write His law in our hearts. But God's Law was also written by the finger of God, and after, was teached by Jesus Christ in the Gospel and written in books by the apostles and early Christians.

Christ's sheep hear his voice. And then to not forget the words of Jesus Christ, the apostles and disciples wrote the Gospel and other books like the facts of the apostles, the apocalypse...

Writing is necessary to remember accurately the word of God and his commandments, writing is necessary ...

God, in time of Moses, wrote the law on two tables of stone ... and after, the Gospels were written in books.

What Jesus is asking Christians is to be faithful to the Gospel, and the Gospel was written by the apostles and first disciples. But what happened next, in recent centuries?

In the end times (times of antichrist), religions impose the belief that the Christians have to believe that all laws of the Old Testament are the word of God, and there has been great confusion to the world.

The Old Testament laws are another "different gospel".

__________________

The prophets before Jesus Christ tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So said the prophet:


"my people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jer 8:7-9).

And Jesus Christ came back to teach us the true God's Law:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Mat 7:12)
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:14 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
God's law is the 10 commandments.
Hi Shepherd, I appreciate your reply.

The Ten Commandments of the Old Testament are not equal to the commandments that teach us the gospel , there are big differences. I'll give an example: The Old Testament tells us:

"Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labor, and shalt do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt not do any work therein, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maid, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, neither any of thy cattle, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maid may rest as well as thou". (Deut. 5:12-15).

On the contrary, the Gospel tells us:

"Jesus said unto him, Rise: take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and the same day was the Sabbath. The Jews therefore said to him that was made whole, It is the Sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole he said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk" (John 5:8-11)

"And therefore the Jews did persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him: not only because he had broken the Sabbath: but said also that God was his Father, and made himself equal with God"(John 5:16-18)


Jesus did not respected and not fulfilled those laws about the Sabbath written in the Ten Commandments the Old Testament , and it is because Jesus Christ was God and those Old Testament laws were not God's law.

YOU WILL NOT KILL

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill " written in the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5:17 "Thou shalt not kill"... ) Jesus also gave in the Gospel (Matthew 19:18 "Thou shalt not kill"... ). But in the other laws of the Old Testament, Old Testament scribes forgot this command and began writing God had commanded them to hurt and kill the men . So says the law of the Old Testament:

"Also if men strive and hurt a woman with child, so that her child depart from her and death follow not, he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband shall appoint him, or he shall pay as the Judges determine. But if death follow, then thou shalt pay life for life. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe".(Exodus 21:22-25).

God had commanded from the beginning "Thou shalt not kill", and after in the laws of the Old Testament , the scribes wrote that God had sent to war and kill all the men, women and children of the conquered peoples:

"And Moses was angry with the captains of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the war and battle. And Moses said unto them, What? have ye saved all the women? .........Now therefore, slay all the males among the children, and kill all the women that have known man by carnal copulation" (Numbers verses 31)

"Then came out Sihon to meet us, himself with all his people to fight at Jahaz. But the Lord our God delivered him into our power, and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities the same time, and destroyed every city, men, and women, and children: we let nothing remain". (Deuteronomy 2:32-34)


God had commanded men from the beginning "Thou shalt not kill", and after, the leaders of the people and their scribes wrote in the laws of the Old Testament that God commanded them to kill men for various reasons. Jesus Christ is God who came to show us the true Law of God and the commandments of love, mercy and forgiveness that teaches us the Gospel and which give us back the true law of God . The Gospel says so:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you, Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever will compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh, and from him that would borrow of thee, turn not away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies: bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you"(Matthew 5,38-44)

Jesus gave to Moses the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill", and, as we have seen, the Old Testament laws do not always keep this commandment. So it is clear that the laws of the Old Testament are mixed with the commandments of men, which drowned the commandments of God. Jesus Christ is God, who gave us back the true Law that God gave to Moses . And this law is the law of the Gospel .

COMMANDED GOD THAT MEN WERE SLAVES OF OTHER MEN?

The 10 Commandments of the Old Testament's laws, about slaves, also say:

"Neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor’s wife, neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor’s house, his field, nor his manservant, nor his maid, his ox, nor his ass, nor ought that thy neighbor hath". (Deutoro. 5:21).

This commandment is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel. Jesus Christ said to a man who had great wealth:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go, sell that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, and follow me" (Matthew 19:16-22)

According to the Old Testament commandment, I should not desire anything from my neighbor although I do not have anything, and my neighbor can wish all things what have their neighbors, and even their lives, taking them as slaves ... This commandment is a contradiction in itself and completely contradicts what Jesus says in the Gospel: "You will love your neighbor as yourself".


Is not equal say to those living in poverty they not should desire anything from those with great wealth than tell those who have great wealth sell all what they have and give all what they have to the poor. And this is the great difference between the commandments of the Old Testament and the commandments of the Gospel.

If I should not desire anything that belongs to my neighbor (as says the tenth commandment of Jewish law), then my neighbor should not wish to have his neighbor as slave, BECAUSE HE WANT TO REMOVE THE FREEDOM TO HIM... And freedom is a treasure that belongs to every man, then we remove a great treasure that belongs to him (freedom).


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Old 10-18-2013, 07:34 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Hi Shepherd, I appreciate your reply.

The Ten Commandments of the Old Testament are not equal to the commandments that teach us the gospel , there are big differences. I'll give an example: The Old Testament tells us:

"Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labor, and shalt do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt not do any work therein, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maid, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, neither any of thy cattle, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maid may rest as well as thou". (Deut. 5:12-15).

On the contrary, the Gospel tells us:

"Jesus said unto him, Rise: take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and the same day was the Sabbath. The Jews therefore said to him that was made whole, It is the Sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole he said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk" (John 5:8-11)

"And therefore the Jews did persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him: not only because he had broken the Sabbath: but said also that God was his Father, and made himself equal with God"(John 5:16-18)


Jesus did not respected and not fulfilled those laws about the Sabbath written in the Ten Commandments the Old Testament , and it is because Jesus Christ was God and those Old Testament laws were not God's law.

YOU WILL NOT KILL

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill " written in the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 5:17 "Thou shalt not kill"... ) Jesus also gave in the Gospel (Matthew 19:18 "Thou shalt not kill"... ). But in the other laws of the Old Testament, Old Testament scribes forgot this command and began writing God had commanded them to hurt and kill the men . So says the law of the Old Testament:

"Also if men strive and hurt a woman with child, so that her child depart from her and death follow not, he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband shall appoint him, or he shall pay as the Judges determine. But if death follow, then thou shalt pay life for life. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe".(Exodus 21:22-25).

God had commanded from the beginning "Thou shalt not kill", and after in the laws of the Old Testament , the scribes wrote that God had sent to war and kill all the men, women and children of the conquered peoples:

"And Moses was angry with the captains of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the war and battle. And Moses said unto them, What? have ye saved all the women? .........Now therefore, slay all the males among the children, and kill all the women that have known man by carnal copulation" (Numbers verses 31)

"Then came out Sihon to meet us, himself with all his people to fight at Jahaz. But the Lord our God delivered him into our power, and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities the same time, and destroyed every city, men, and women, and children: we let nothing remain". (Deuteronomy 2:32-34)


God had commanded men from the beginning "Thou shalt not kill", and after, the leaders of the people and their scribes wrote in the laws of the Old Testament that God commanded them to kill men for various reasons. Jesus Christ is God who came to show us the true Law of God and the commandments of love, mercy and forgiveness that teaches us the Gospel and which give us back the true law of God . The Gospel says so:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you, Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever will compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh, and from him that would borrow of thee, turn not away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies: bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you"(Matthew 5,38-44)

Jesus gave to Moses the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill", and, as we have seen, the Old Testament laws do not always keep this commandment. So it is clear that the laws of the Old Testament are mixed with the commandments of men, which drowned the commandments of God. Jesus Christ is God, who gave us back the true Law that God gave to Moses . And this law is the law of the Gospel .

COMMANDED GOD THAT MEN WERE SLAVES OF OTHER MEN?

The 10 Commandments of the Old Testament's laws, about slaves, also say:

"Neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor’s wife, neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor’s house, his field, nor his manservant, nor his maid, his ox, nor his ass, nor ought that thy neighbor hath". (Deutoro. 5:21).

This commandment is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel. Jesus Christ said to a man who had great wealth:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go, sell that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, and follow me" (Matthew 19:16-22)

According to the Old Testament commandment, I should not desire anything from my neighbor although I do not have anything, and my neighbor can wish all things what have their neighbors, and even their lives, taking them as slaves ... This commandment is a contradiction in itself and completely contradicts what Jesus says in the Gospel: "You will love your neighbor as yourself".


Is not equal say to those living in poverty they not should desire anything from those with great wealth than tell those who have great wealth sell all what they have and give all what they have to the poor. And this is the great difference between the commandments of the Old Testament and the commandments of the Gospel.

If I should not desire anything that belongs to my neighbor (as says the tenth commandment of Jewish law), then my neighbor should not wish to have his neighbor as slave, BECAUSE HE WANT TO REMOVE THE FREEDOM TO HIM... And freedom is a treasure that belongs to every man, then we remove a great treasure that belongs to him (freedom).



You are confusing pharisaical law with God's Law, the two are not the same and pharisaical law is to be dismissed.

The Sabbath is still in effect. Nowhere in the bible are God's people called anything else but Israelites, to the Israelites the Sabbath never changed. Israel biblcally is not the current day Israel. (also the House of Judah, those who occupy Jerusalem currently and have yet to accept the Messiah)


It is "Thou shall not murder", not thou shall not kill. There is a difference. I know I will get grief for this, however, the gentile is not considered part of the family and killing him does not carry the same weight.

Murder is a killing that is not justified.


Same is said about slaves, they were gentiles, Hagar was an Egyptian for example, they were not part of the family (largely).
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:31 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
You are confusing pharisaical law with God's Law, the two are not the same and pharisaical law is to be dismissed.
That's what you say, but the laws of the Old Testament are all called "God's Laws", and many of these laws were abolished by Jesus Christ, as we see in Matthew 5:21-48, John 8:3-11, and other parts of the Gospel. And Jesus Christ abolished those laws because no were God's Law.

Is Jesus Christ who tell us what is God's Law and what is not God's Law. Everything is teached in the Gospel.


Quote:
Nowhere in the bible are God's people called anything else but Israelites, to the Israelites the Sabbath never changed. Israel biblcally is not the current day Israel. (also the House of Judah, those who occupy Jerusalem currently and have yet to accept the Messiah)
You can call some Jews, and others Messianic, but those who do not follow the commandments of Jesus Christ, ceased to be Messianic and Jews. Those who turn to the laws of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished ceased to be God's people.

Quote:
It is "Thou shall not murder", not thou shall not kill. There is a difference. I know I will get grief for this, however, the gentile is not considered part of the family and killing him does not carry the same weight.

Murder is a killing that is not justified.
Jesus Christ not order kill or murder. Jesus commanded forgive seventy times seven and to have mercy. God never commanded men to kill his fellow man, because Jesus Christ is God, and He did not commanded those things.

Those laws to kill, are Old Testament laws, but not laws of God, because Jesus Christ is God and He not commanded those things.


Quote:
Same is said about slaves, they were gentiles, Hagar was an Egyptian for example, they were not part of the family (largely).
That's your philosophy, but slavery was abolished by the Gospel because it was not God's law. Jesus Christ says:

"Jesus called them together and said," You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant, and whoever wants to be first, be servant of all, in the same manner as the son of man is not come to be served but to serve and give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:25-28)

Estimated friend, the only God's Law is the Gospel's Law:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)


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Old 10-19-2013, 10:38 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
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1Corinthians 3:2
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:40 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
1Corinthians 3:2
I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
Jesus Christ says: "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you":

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you". (John 15:10-15)
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:46 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Jesus Christ says: "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you":

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you". (John 15:10-15)

Are you missing the point that Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and therefor remained in good favor (love) with the Father?


He's telling you to keep the law of the Father as he did himself.
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