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Old 10-18-2013, 09:24 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,698,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
It depends.


If the poster wants a very classic majestic traditional church with all the trappings no one will be able to beat the RCC.
Have you been to my church? We hold God in a very high esteem. No--I don't wear fancy robes and chant in Latin. We don't have all the pomp, but God is most definitely worshiped as being sovereign and majestic.
Quote:

At the same time they will not try to control or judge you.

The OP may have to do the year long rite of initiation to get all the sacraments and his paper work in order. During this year he will meet with a priest to get educated on the RCC. But, as I said, this is a no pressure, non proselytization situation.
No control....but you will have to jump through the RCIA hoops. I've watched my step-mother go through it in the past few years....I've watched her get her previous marriage annulled (despite the fact that she was married to him for a decade and had a daughter with him).

No....they don't "control" you....they just tell you how to live every aspect of life.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Have you been to my church? We hold God in a very high esteem. No--I don't wear fancy robes and chant in Latin. We don't have all the pomp, but God is most definitely worshiped as being sovereign and majestic.


No control....but you will have to jump through the RCIA hoops. I've watched my step-mother go through it in the past few years....I've watched her get her previous marriage annulled (despite the fact that she was married to him for a decade and had a daughter with him).

No....they don't "control" you....they just tell you how to live every aspect of life.
It is not controlling. It is bureaucratic and dogmatic. But, they will not judge the parishioners negatively.

Annulments are funny--------a loop hole to get married in the church. Many people like the Church weddings.

Yes, OP will have to do the hoops of the RCIA but these are necessary for a proper baptism, 1st communion, and conformation during the Easter Vigil. She should not take communion until that day. I think it may work for the OP.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
It is not controlling. It is bureaucratic and dogmatic. But, they will not judge the parishioners negatively.Annulments are funny--------a loop hole to get married in the church. Many people like the Church weddings.Yes, OP will have to do the hoops of the RCIA but these are necessary for a proper baptism, 1st communion, and conformation during the Easter Vigil. She should not take communion until that day. I think it may work for the OP.
Julian, glad you brought up annulments. Annulments technically aren't a loophole to get married, but are a way to get out of a marriage deemed to be invalid for a variety of reasons, usually called insufficiencies, or inadequacies of judgement. This might be 20 year old Joe getting 18 year old Sally pregnant, they marry, then find out they are incompatible. Or, Sally's parents pressure Joe to marry their daughter because they are sexually active. The RCC decides for whatever reason the marriage was consummated outside the 'nature of true marriage.' Also, this process can be done without one spouse even knowing about it until the annulment is granted and the annulment declaration issued. This isn't about annulments per se, but is similar. It's a church requirement to remarry within the church. All this is approved by a diocesan tribunal who examine the personal lives from childhood to present. This is not intended to be all inclusive and not the main point of my post, which follows.

Remember my buddy Boyd who came home and his wife announced she wanted a divorce? They were Catholic. Boyd's wife had been told by the priest she was seeing(?!) that although the RCC calls divorce a 'grave sin' he had a 'get out of jail free card quickly' for her. I remember hearing about it when I was training but didn't know it was actually used or I should say abused. It's called 'separation while the bond remains.' The whole idea came about in the 70's when the RCC was hit hard by state's new 'no fault divorce' legislation. This, along with the new Code of Canon Law caused the American RCC fits. The flood of divorces bogged down the church's divorce approval system. It's complex, and was intended to provide spouses in abusive relationships a way to obtain a civil divorce prior to official RCC approval, or without RCC approval. Ultimately, it has been misused, and in the end, innocent people who are not abusive have been hurt by spouses looking for a way out of a marriage without jumping or waiting to jump through normal church hoops. A lot of upstanding lives have been ruined, and worse, the children are harmed seeing one of their parent's names wrongly dragged through the mud.

All this from the church you claim will not try to judge or control you. I guess wrongly ruining the reputations and destroying the marriages of people like my buddy Boyd doesn't count.

Last edited by bartstarr1960; 10-18-2013 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:21 AM
 
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They are not fundamentalist, however (not believing the Bible is the literal Word of God), which most non-denominational churches ARE, so if that's important to you, the Episcopal Church might not work.
Wait, what? Like I said, I've not been going to church for a while (grew up going to Sunday School, and helped teach a couple of years), so obviously I'm NOT fundamentalist. Why would I want to be fundamentalist? I do have some issues with literal interpretations of the Bible (which, let's face it, is always actually just selective literal interpretation).
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:55 AM
 
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On matters of the heart, you have to let them happen naturally and on their own timing. It can't be forced. It usually happens thus, that when one stops looking . . . wham! It happens unexpectedly
Yeah been hearing that my whole life. Never actually worked out like that. I'm very bad with picking up women. I've actually had to go out and make myself do it. If I just sit down like a lumpkin and expect it to happen, I'll just die alone. Very depressing. I'm 28 and have barely dated.
One of the reasons I'm interested in a church is they provide structure, actual behavioral recommendations. In a way they WILL try to control you which is a GOOD thing, as long as in the first place you choose to be subject to such control. Our whole society (at least in the blue states) is trying the whole complete-freedom thing, and it isn't working. Freedom is great politically, but not in one's personal life. As a society we've become a bunch of people who suck at life. The simplest truths about interpersonal relationships are amazing surprises to yuppie-culture blue-staters; I remember reading a slew of articles about "maintenance sex" among couples and married couples, and everyone was amazed that this was making their relationships better! Really!?That never occured to these people? And then there were articles about "marriage promises", and how they were helping people by more generally laying out what people wanted and that they were getting results because people were following them and in that way commiting to their partner. Again, Really!? These people are surprised that not being a self-centered flake is an important aspect of a relationship? Geez! And there's other stuff like that, parents who can't understand why their children act out and don't understand they're being bad, when said parent refuses to discipline said child. They'd rather send kids to the psychiatrist than actually deal with them. My young cousin is at some special school and there's really nothing wrong with him, his parents are just weird flakes who don't know how to be level reasonable people and parents.

A lot has been made about our modern culture, and men getting older but not growing up, and young people not moving on with their lives with marriage and child-rearing. Everyone is waiting for some special soul mate or some special job opportunity, but this just ends up removing all motivation. The whole "dating" thing is very much a modern invention, and by its nature does NOT work, at least not the way people now engage in it. Back in the day there were arranged marriages, and nowadays the Indians (the East/Asian ones, Hindi) still do it and have dramatically better marriage and hapiness-marriage statistics than us "daters".

If you don't find any of this to be true of our culture, I would recommend reading various articles, there's one by Jen Doll where she describes how she frittered her time away dating until marriage was a moot point, there's the blog "dalrock" who writes good stuff, there's the article "Why marriage eludes the modern woman" and others, I have a bunch I'm saving in a folder. One particular one that comes to mind is by a journalist who moved from his small town to the city to become a journalist, and was amazed when his sister died and he had to go back to the town, how much outpouring of support there was for his sister, and how genuinely happy the people were. That's the story of blue-state life, we'd rather be a bunch of workaholics with a lot of money to buy a "nice" condo, but completely socially detached, rather than real people living in communities with some sense about the world.

I figure a church is the only place that could maybe provide a cultural backdrop to get married, and raise kids who will also do the same. I say this from a very worldly and practical standpoint, I mean, for example, looking at the website of one of the NJ megachurches, they actually had lawyers or something on staff and offered marriage set-up or prenup counseling or something, which is a necessaru thing nowadays with the way the laws are. I could see myself teaching classes to older adolescents explaing why we value marriage, and how it really works, to fight Hollywood-instilled ideas about completely passive romance. More importantly I figure a church might be the only place where you could learn the cultural values that could eventually lead you to understand you are never going to be happy until you learn that other people are more important to you, that it's not all about you. Our culture unfortunately is the opposite of that.

I figured that a church might not have a lot of young people to meet the future Mrs., but some of the megachurches do have young-adult groups, and if I go through the motions I could worst case scenario use a christian dating site. These things would beat trying to drag a non-church going girl into the church world.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuttree View Post
So is a non-denominational church a good fit for me?
I'm just curious as to why you think you'd find things to be any different in a "non-denominational" Church than in a "denominational" Church, such as the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, or the Methodist Church.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:41 AM
 
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I'm just curious as to why you think you'd find things to be any different in a "non-denominational" Church than in a "denominational" Church, such as the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, or the Methodist Church.
See the note about what my church's uhhh... priest (I don't want to use the actual name we use in our ethnic minority for the sake of anonymity) did to the couple who gave their lives to the church over one stupid tiff on dogmatic issues.
The son now goes to a non-denominational church, as does his Dad, after the Mom died. It became such a big part of his (the son) life he moved into the same town as the church so as to be near it

I figure either that or the methodist church because of their modernist leanings. Or the episcopalean church, aren't they also kind of modernist, like allow gays and stuff in the church?
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Florida (SW)
39,398 posts, read 18,877,686 times
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I would recommend that you visit a variety of churches. I am a Unitarian Universalist and it came to my mind when I read your OP. It is a non creedal church that believes in:


The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
Acceptace of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;
Respect for the interconnected web of all existence of which we are a part.

"Love is the doctrine of this church; the quest for truth its sacrament and service is its prayer"


You might also like to visit the United Church of Christ.....the Methodist Church....they are both more Christian but not usually dogmatic.

Good Luck in your search.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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Yeah, the methodist and unitarian churches have that aspect that attracts me, but the other side of it is that too much acceptance, and the church ends up being meningless. Sometimes you do have to give people a kick in the pants andtell them to stop being lazy, and part of being in a community is willing to do that. Someone who never passes judgement or gives advice is someone who doesn't really care. See my long post on culture, a LOT of young people are refusing to get on with their lives because they're lazy. Having kids when you're 32, or even 38 is just self-indulgent, and this culture needs to be fought against in this aspect
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Except the church...
The Episcopal Church does not try to "control your life". Quite the opposite, compared to many other churches, including the uber-control you seem to espouse on these boards. What a weird thing to try to get people to believe.
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