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Old 10-18-2013, 11:16 AM
 
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If we are his creations and if he knows that some of us aren't perfect enough to worship him... Why does he create more of us?
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
And you trust his judgement? Because as a mere mortal I can't.
We are all mortals who will, apart from the rapture of the Church, face physical death. That has not stopped others from trusting God's judgment, and leaves you without a valid excuse.

Quote:
You say that God knows how much time a person has... Does this mean he agrees with the free-will of murderers who have taken the lives of doubters?
God determines how much time He gives a person on this earth. And He allows physical death to come in many ways. Some die of old age. Others from illness or by accidents. Some in warfare. Others by martyrdom. And because man has both a sin nature and volition and there are those who commit violent crime, many people are murdered. Murder is a sin and God does not approve of sin, but He allows man's volition to function. But if God does not intend for a particular person to be murdered, then he won't be. God determines both the time and the means by which a person is taken out of this life. In the case of suicide however, a person superimposes his volition over God's sovereignty, which He will allow, and takes his own life before God's allotted time. God takes some believers out of this world under maximum divine discipline which means that their death may be quite unpleasant. But they are eternally saved and will go home to heaven, though in disgrace.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:17 PM
 
21,808 posts, read 16,674,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
If we are his creations and if he knows that some of us aren't perfect enough to worship him... Why does he create more of us?
Only Adam and the woman were directly created by God. Adam from the dust of the ground, and the woman from one of Adam's ribs. Everyone else comes into the world though pro-creation though God does in each instance directly create the soul and breathe it into the body at the point of physical birth.

God intends to bring many sons into glory (Romans 8:28-30; Hebrews 2:10). But man has volition and must choose whether or not he will accept God's offer of eternal life.

God knew that given volition, both angels and man would rebel against Him. Yet He chose to create both. That was His sovereign prerogative and choice to do so. He also knew exactly how He would deal with that rebellion and how He would make man's salvation possible. Man must choose to avail himself of the means of salvation which God has provided.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:45 PM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
I've been taught a fair amount of religious matters about hell.

...But where as some people become fearful of hell, or even reject it...
...I accepted such reality. And even though I will probably regret it...

...while I am still on earth, I want to fight for those who have doubted the existence god and had their lives taken from them before they could convert. I want to fight for those who chose, out of fear of death, to convert out of Christianity. I want to fight for those that didn't realize which word of God to follow!

...I have no wish to indulge in lust, pride, and murder. I respect Christ for his lessons taught on earth...

...But, because I was taught about what happens to those who do not have faith...

...because I have free will and because I am an empathic person, I cannot agree with the creator on what happens to those whose lives were taken before they could convert.


...If that puts me in the rank of Lucifer, so be it.

...But for those of you who choose to do nothing while our sadistic creator feasts on the suffering of the souls that he himself created, I have nothing to say.






...If the creator is a forgiving and loving creator, then that would be really nice, but...

...If the creator does not have mercy for the doubter, I hope the rest of you have it in you to not be selfish enough to accept God out of convenience and fight for those who were less fortunate. For it is those who think themselves as higher than the doubters and pass by a terrible crime, are what most of humanity considers the Devil.
Hi HurricaneKid

Don't worry about it, Jesus Christ as triumphed over death and hell(intentional use of a mistranslated word) and by the knowledge of this is setting the captives of both free. His victory is yours
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:47 PM
 
9,665 posts, read 8,654,461 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
We are all mortals who will, apart from the rapture of the Church, face physical death. That has not stopped others from trusting God's judgment, and leaves you without a valid excuse.



God determines how much time He gives a person on this earth. And He allows physical death to come in many ways. Some die of old age. Others from illness or by accidents. Some in warfare. Others by martyrdom. And because man has both a sin nature and volition and there are those who commit violent crime, many people are murdered. Murder is a sin and God does not approve of sin, but He allows man's volition to function. But if God does not intend for a particular person to be murdered, then he won't be. God determines both the time and the means by which a person is taken out of this life. In the case of suicide however, a person superimposes his volition over God's sovereignty, which He will allow, and takes his own life before God's allotted time. God takes some believers out of this world under maximum divine discipline which means that their death may be quite unpleasant. But they are eternally saved and will go home to heaven, though in disgrace.
What do you mean by the fact that god won't allow a person to be murdered?
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:10 PM
 
11,229 posts, read 11,254,000 times
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Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
This and the other thread of yours...

I really don't know what to make of it?

The Creator, the Father, is loving and merciful, but only unto his. The second commandment draws this distinction, "and showing mercy unto thousands that love Me and keep my commandments".

Doubting is one thing, rejection is something all together different. God can work with a doubter but not a rejector.
I think when God spoke these words He forgot that billions would need His mercy, not "thousands".
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
What do you mean by the fact that god won't allow a person to be murdered?
Just what I said. If God does not intend for a particular person to be murdered then that person will not be murdered. If someone tries to murder a person to whom God has assigned a different means of departure from this life, then God will intervene and prevent the intended murder of that person. We won't know, this side of heaven, how many times our lives were protected through angelic intervention on our behalf. Both the time and the means of death for each of us is determined by God. As I also said however, a person may superimpose his volition over God's sovereignty (which God will permit, though not always) through suicide and depart this life before God's intended time.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:30 PM
 
11,229 posts, read 11,254,000 times
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
If we are his creations and if he knows that some of us aren't perfect enough to worship him... Why does he create more of us?
Here is the dilemma that fundamentalists like Calvinists find it nearly impossible to explain to intelligent people who are non-Christian:

1. God, from the foundation of the universe, knew most of us were going to hell to burn in torment eternally yet, in His sovereign will, knowledge--whatever you want to call it--He went ahead and created us anyway.
2. We didn't asked to be born yet we are forced to accept the consequences of being born
3. We don't even have the capacity to accept Jesus unless the Holy Spirit unilaterally draws us to Jesus, yet we are forced to accept the consequences of our sin through no fault of our own. It's God's responsibility to reveal Himself to us, yet He chooses to withhold divine knowledge of Jesus from most of us.
4. God has not revealed Himself to us in such a way that the average atheist or agnostic can say, "Yes, there is a God". Those who respond to "The heavens declare your glory, O Lord" are able to through the Holy Spirit, but those that the Holy Spirit has chosen to withhold Himself from have no way of using the evidence of nature to prove God's presence. They are blinded through no fault of their own.

Any parent having a child makes himself responsible for the welfare of that child, yet God washes His hands of responsibility once the child reaches whats called "the age of reason". From then on he's on his own, unless he is one of those specially-elected elites (the saved) that God has divinely appointed to salvation from the beginning of time.

If none of this makes any sense to you you're not alone, yet this is what Calvinists and other fundamentalist Christian sects teach.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Florida
592 posts, read 650,721 times
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Everyone has equal opportunity to be eternally saved. God in His omniscience knows all the facts. He knew from eternity past who would and who would not respond to the gospel. No one dies without having had an opportunity to respond first to God's general revelation of Himself though the witness of His creation (Romans 1:18-20), and then if positive volition is expressed at that point, to the specific revelation of Jesus Christ through the gospel message.


Thank you,
Amen!
God Bless
Mercy
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