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Old 10-19-2013, 09:24 AM
 
21,838 posts, read 16,687,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
Everyone has equal opportunity to be eternally saved. God in His omniscience knows all the facts. He knew from eternity past who would and who would not respond to the gospel. No one dies without having had an opportunity to respond first to God's general revelation of Himself though the witness of His creation (Romans 1:18-20), and then if positive volition is expressed at that point, to the specific revelation of Jesus Christ through the gospel message.


Thank you,
Amen!
God Bless
Mercy
You're welcome. I need to modify that statement however. I wasn't thinking about the fact that there are those who do die without ever reaching a point of God consciousness, the point at which they would be responsible to respond to God's general revelation of Himself through the witness of His creation. In their case, because God is just and cannot be unjust, they are automatically saved because of the fact that Christ died for them. God requires a volitional decision on our part both at the point of God consciousness and at the point of gospel hearing. But if a person dies without coming to an awareness of God though general revelation and is therefore unable to exercise either positive or negative volition, it would be unfair for God to leave him under condemnation. In other words if anyone dies without reaching the point (I don't like the term 'age') of accountability which comes whenever a person has developed enough mentally to grasp the concept of God he is automatically saved. Someone could conceivably, because of severe mental retardation, live to a very old age and then die without ever being accountable because he never reached the point of God consciousness and therefore automatically be saved. But when a person does become aware of God's existence though His natural or general revelation of Himself, he is accountable to God for his volitional response. If he is positive at the point of God consciousness he will have the opportunity to hear the specific revelation of Jesus Christ through the gospel message at which point he will either be positive or negative. If he is negative he remains under condemnation. If he is positive in his response to the gospel then he is eternally saved. And so this is included in the fact that everyone has equal opportunity to be eternally saved.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:10 PM
 
8,102 posts, read 7,071,630 times
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Sounds like a fruitless fight , actually to go and fight God , the eternal Judge of the living and the dead ,...See there is not a lot any one can do as ``God has put before man life and death`` , and God said to ``choose life , so that you and your seed can live ``......See Christians are called by God to let God defend himself in the matters of God ..... See God does not want any man or women in hell even more than you but the spiritual laws are set , and they will not be changed by man or God ..... So obedience to Gods commands by Lord Jesus can be the only way that you could help men not go there is to help them through Lord Jesus Christ to be save to Jesus and His righteousness.....
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:24 AM
 
5,140 posts, read 2,529,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Sounds like a fruitless fight , actually to go and fight God , the eternal Judge of the living and the dead ,...See there is not a lot any one can do as ``God has put before man life and death`` , and God said to ``choose life , so that you and your seed can live ``......See Christians are called by God to let God defend himself in the matters of God ..... See God does not want any man or women in hell even more than you but the spiritual laws are set , and they will not be changed by man or God ..... So obedience to Gods commands by Lord Jesus can be the only way that you could help men not go there is to help them through Lord Jesus Christ to be save to Jesus and His righteousness.....
What spiritual laws are set ? ______

Biblical hell [ the grave where Jesus went the day Jesus died- Acts 2 vs 27, 31 ] is temporary.

[ The word 'Gehenna', translated in KJV as hellfire, Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction.]

Doesn't Revelation [ 20 vs 13,14 ] show that biblical hell itself ends up in a symbolic 'second death' ?_______
After everyone in the Bible's hell is 'delivered up' [ meaning resurrected out of hell ], then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death'.

It is Not biblical hell, but destruction that awaits the wicked.- 2nd Peter 3 v 9; Hebrews 2 v 14 B.
Jesus gave the choice between everlasting life or perish [ be destroyed ] at John 3 v 16
Just as there was no post-mortem penalty for Adam. There is also No after death penalty for anyone else.
The wicked, according to Psalm 92 v 7, are destroyed forever.
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:35 AM
 
376 posts, read 323,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Doubting is one thing, rejection is something all together different. God can work with a doubter but not a rejector.
Are you saying God's powers are limited?
Are you saying Saul (Paul) was just a doubter instead of a murdering rejector?
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,837 posts, read 7,897,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
If we are his creations and if he knows that some of us aren't perfect enough to worship him... Why does he create more of us?
Not only this Hurricane. Many Christians believe that it is predetermined (not just known) by God which people will have faith in Him or reject Him long before they are ever even born. This, then, means that the majority of mankind is doomed to hell eternal before they ever even pop out of the womb. Pretty malicious stuff there, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If God does not intend for a particular person to be murdered then that person will not be murdered. If someone tries to murder a person to whom God has assigned a different means of departure from this life, then God will intervene and prevent the intended murder of that person. Both the time and the means of death for each of us is determined by God.
So God is totally cool with an 8 year old girl being kidnapped and brutally raped and strangled to death and left on the side of the road? Good to know.
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,819 posts, read 2,873,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Are you saying God's powers are limited?
Are you saying Saul (Paul) was just a doubter instead of a murdering rejector?
to many, the power of God is limited. God really wants to do something, but man and his free-will is preventing God from doing it. No matter what, God cannot trump mans free-will. of course on the way to Damascus to get Christians, Paul was converted, not by making a choice, he did not even hear the gospel. his freewill took a back seat and God converted him. God does the converting, I cannot choose God. Jesus said, " you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you". But that is too easy for most, we must do the choosing. Paul did not have any choice. He was chosen, nowhere in the gospel does he even indicate that he made a choice. For sure he was evil to the core, but God chose him anyway, and It will be a pattern of the way God will do things in the future.
God is in total control Period. not, God is in total control comma, but etc....
WW, you need to come around here more often.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:11 AM
 
5,140 posts, read 2,529,970 times
Reputation: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Not only this Hurricane. Many Christians believe that it is predetermined (not just known) by God which people will have faith in Him or reject Him long before they are ever even born. This, then, means that the majority of mankind is doomed to hell eternal before they ever even pop out of the womb. Pretty malicious stuff there, eh?
.
Many ' so-called ' Christians believe..... Revelation shows us the happy outcome [ Rev. 22 v 2 ], but as to who will be part of Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom reign over earth is Not known because we all have free will to chose who we will obey.
Just as we can not count the grains of sand on the seashore. It is an unknown number. No set number.
- see Rev. 20 v 8; 7 v 9; Hebrews 11 v 12 B; Isaiah 57 v 20
All are asked to repent rather than perish [ be destroyed ]- 2nd Peter 3 v 9

Biblical hell is not eternal.- Everyone in the Bible's hell [ grave ] is 'delivered up' meaning resurrected out of hell before emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic 'second death' for the Bible's biblical hell.- Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:14 AM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,444,033 times
Reputation: 1536
It sounds to me like you're fighting more with yourself than anyone else, not even with God. It sounds more like you want to play martyr and fight for the sides of you that you felt were condemned before you even had a chance to explain and express who you really are.
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