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Old 11-20-2007, 08:46 PM
 
4,437 posts, read 6,007,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnucaenuj View Post
I can point to the old fundamentalists that used to preach that slavery is part of the bible and that God approves of slavery. The Mormans never accepted slavery.

The LDS are the nicest group of Christians that I've ever had the pleasure of working with. They are believers in their doctines as resolute as some of you fundamentist bigots are in yours. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for casting doubt on the credibility of your brothers in Christ!

This whole thread is a total attack on a worthy religion.

and during Thankgiving season of all things.

You see it as attacking.. I see it as history..
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:04 PM
 
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SergeantL and coolcats; I really appreciate reading both your responses in this thread but I have to digress for a moment here. Sorry to go OT but I just had a thought for any non LDS; why is LDS history so fascinating? I mean you here a heck of a lot more about the negative or perceived negative in mormon history but what about the negative in Catholic history or other religions? It just seems to be that the former is discussed a lot more than the latter? Just an observation.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:44 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
You see it as attacking.. I see it as history..

Ok "Big Thirsty, Will you share with us what your sect of Christianity is, or your personal religious affiliation is?

I just want to discuss YOUR religious history...
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:43 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 2,187,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantL View Post
This is all well and good, Sean, but none of it is Church Canon. I am also suspicious of the quote from the alleged First Presidency Letter. It is not clear who is being quoted; the alleged author of the letter or the authors of the article in reference to their observations of Church practices.

Next, Mormon Doctrine was written by Bruce McConkie, who was a member of the Church, but was not writing for the Church and his book contains much of his own speculation. His works are full of holes and not supported by Church doctrine. I have found at least ten subjects in his work that are clearly contradicted by Church Canon.

Finally, the Journal of Discourses is not Church Canon. The Journal of Discourses is a collection of Church events recorded by various members, but it is not the basis or authority for Church beliefs or practices.

I repeat; and expand somewhat. Unless something is contained in Church Canon, it is not a religious belief. LDS Canon consists of the KJV Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses, and the Doctrine and Covenants.
The Pearl of Great Price contains the Book of Abraham based upon Egyptian papyri which have been proven by recognized impartial Egyptologists to be NOT the words of Abraham but an extended prayer on behalf of an Egyptian priest and assurance of his continued existence in the next world. They are nothing more than burial documents!

Preterist
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Old 11-21-2007, 09:17 AM
 
7,768 posts, read 9,720,036 times
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Let's keep this thread on-topic about racism in the Mormon church. This isn't about Mormonism in general, just this one aspect.

Thanks
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:53 AM
 
4,437 posts, read 6,007,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnucaenuj View Post
Ok "Big Thirsty, Will you share with us what your sect of Christianity is, or your personal religious affiliation is?

I just want to discuss YOUR religious history...
Too funny..

I was raised Methodist. Discuss..

I say too funny because I don't think you'll find many on this board who would say I think Christianity or Christians have done no wrong..

Woops.. I just saw Alphas post and I think my reply would be deemed OT. I'll start a new thread on the Christianity board allowing you to discuss Methodists and further than that .. Christianity as a whole. Methodist History
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:50 PM
 
230 posts, read 389,051 times
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Default racism in the church

Im a black mormon. Ive been one for over 15 years. I never had a problem with blacks not having the priesthood because I joined after 1978. It just doesn't affect me. What has affected me is how some other LDS members treat members, who look like me, as a result of certain doctrine and the 1978 revelation. Remember, that in 1978 some member left the church rather than accept the revelation. Just read any Salt Lake City local newspaper on the day of the revelation. Some were overjoyed and some were disgusted. To me, there are some members who view and treat me as being a step below them, spiritually speaking. Of course the LDS leaders say that it's not okay to treat members indifferently, but some members still view me strangely like I'm not a real mormon or something. I don't care. I just try to remember that they are just people too, they're not perfect and go on with my life.
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:10 AM
 
4,437 posts, read 6,007,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annibelle View Post
I don't care. I just try to remember that they are just people too, they're not perfect and go on with my life.
Well said!
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:28 AM
 
1,125 posts, read 2,457,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annibelle View Post
Im a black mormon. Ive been one for over 15 years. I never had a problem with blacks not having the priesthood because I joined after 1978. It just doesn't affect me. What has affected me is how some other LDS members treat members, who look like me, as a result of certain doctrine and the 1978 revelation. Remember, that in 1978 some member left the church rather than accept the revelation. Just read any Salt Lake City local newspaper on the day of the revelation. Some were overjoyed and some were disgusted. To me, there are some members who view and treat me as being a step below them, spiritually speaking. Of course the LDS leaders say that it's not okay to treat members indifferently, but some members still view me strangely like I'm not a real mormon or something. I don't care. I just try to remember that they are just people too, they're not perfect and go on with my life.
Annibelle, all religions have their idiots, bigots, morons, and less than intelligent members and without question the LDS Church is no exception. Think of Church as a hospital for the morally, spiritually, and intellectually infirm. We can only hope that infusions of Christian principles will eventually cure them.

I have been a member since well before 1978. I am aware that some members did in fact leave the Church when it changed this practice. Most of those who did leave in my experience were marginal members to start with and were probably looking for an excuse to leave. Yes, there were some VERY strong members who quit, but they based their reasons on a poor understanding of the truth. A number of members believed the practice was permanent and unchanging. They, along with a number of Church leaders, forgot that Joseph said the day would come when all would hold the Priesthood.

None of this is new. When the Church decided to conform to the new laws forbidding plural marriage in the 1890s, many members departed believing the Church was teaching false doctrine. We see the results of this today in the various polygamist groups that claim to be Mormon.

My attitude towards all of this is simple. From a doctrinal perspective, I can’t find any religion that makes as much sense to me as the LDS faith. (Someone else’s mileage may vary) I am aware that God’s truth is always opposed by Satan and he can do an excellent job in the smear tactics department, so the more screaming and howling I hear, the more I know I am on the right path. I noticed this same phenomenon when I was in law enforcement.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:40 PM
 
12,547 posts, read 12,082,061 times
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Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:

“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)



Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”
(The Way to Perfection, page 101)




More from Smith:

“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”
(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)


The Mark of Cain

The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearence of Africans:

“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)

From a Mormon Publication:

“Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, THEIR INTELLIGENCE STUNTED, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157)

The Mormon God and Skin Color



Changing the Anti-Black Doctrine

Chapter 10

Part 1




On June 9, 1978, Mormon church leaders announced a very important change in their doctrine concerning blacks. They stated that blacks would now be given "all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords" (Deseret News, June 9, 1978).

Prior to that time blacks of African lineage were not allowed to hold the Priesthood nor go through the temple even though they lived exemplary lives.

The Mormon position concerning blacks was clearly stated in a letter written by the First Presidency on July 17, 1947:
"From the days of the Prophet Joseph even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel"
(Letter from the First Presidency, quoted in Mormonism and the Negro, by John J. Stewart and William E. Berrett, pp.46-47).

Bruce R. McConkie, who now serves as an apostle in the Mormon church, wrote the following in a book published in 1958:
Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them.... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned ... (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p.477).


In a book published in 1966, Wallace Turner, a correspondent for the New York Times, set forth the limitations blacks were confronted with in the Mormon Church:
The Negro Mormon can hold no office whatsoever in a church which offers some office to every one of its male members at some time in his life.

A gray-haired Negro Mormon who may have spent his adult life in the careful practice of all the complicated and demanding rules set down by the LDS church stands disenfranchised before the altar where a youth whose beard is just beginning to fuzz may preside.

A twelve-year-old boy may become a member of the Aaronic priesthood, more than this Negro man has been able to achieve through a lifetime of devotion.

To hold any church office, a Mormon must be a member of the priesthood (The Mormon Establishment, pp.243-44).
Some Mormons who questioned this doctrine found themselves in serious trouble with the Church.

For example, Grant Syphers related:
"In all humility I must say that God has not inspired me to feel good about the Church's practices regarding Negroes.... when my wife and I went to San Francisco Ward's bishop to renew our temple recommends,

he told us that anyone who could not accept the Church's stand on


Negroes as divine doctrine was not supporting the General Authorities and could not go to the temple.



Later, in an interview with the stake president we were told the same thing:if you express doubts about the divinity of this

if you express doubts about the divinity of this "doctrine" you cannot go to the temple (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Winter 1967. p.6).

MORMON 23 (http://www.ondoctrine.com/1mormo23.htm - broken link)

Last edited by Miborn; 11-25-2007 at 07:50 PM.. Reason: add
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