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Old 10-22-2013, 04:22 AM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,364 posts, read 4,302,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Why would you venture to say "none"? There are in fact a number of great philosophers whom I have studied and admired. Paul is simply not one of them. While I do not completely and totally agree with ALL of them (After all, life is not an all - or - nothing affair) I do not agree with any of Paul's really.

I have met a number of philosophers and preachers whom all claim to have heard the "voice of god" and are on a mission in life to evangelize as such. For many, adjusting their medication was adequate, but for those who continue to hallucinate and live in an unhealthy state of reality, we fortunately have places for them.

Paul is, sadly, as we have proven before, mentally and neurologically ill. Not someone worth following, rather someone worth helping. If he were alive today, we could addresses his mental illnesses as well as his seizure disorder, and through modern science, give him a better life. For all else, for those who reject the truth of science and what it offers, there is mythology, delusion, and ignorance, of which Paul's philosophy epitomizes to a sad state.
Here's the thing your missing... what man throws on the pile of heaping waste, God takes and makes Paul a vessel of good will, knowledge and love. So good in fact, Paul previously a murderer, is accused of being a messenger of "easy believe-ism", to much forgiveness and grace. Jesus came from a family of murders, adulterers, and liars.... not a very good resume. Peter was a ignorant stinky ole fisherman , and what about those tax collectors etc. Just like the QB in football we expect the message to be delivered by a perceived leader, warrior, and elitist if you will. Someone we deem intellectually superior.

Forest Gump said it best... stupid is what stupid does... thank you Voltaire
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:43 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Beyond original sin ... can you give an account for generational sins from your ancestors?


Your father is a drunken wife beater, he raises a drunken wife beater, you raise a drunken wife beater, and so does your son, and so does his son.

But at the age of 60 you suddenly find Jesus, after raising three generations of wife beaters.


Just because you have seen the error of your ways, all is right with the world? No, you have only begun to suffer for your sin through the knowledge of the misery you have created.


Nothing supernatural at all about the concept found in the 4th Commandment.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,890,246 times
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As for Paul (or Peter, or any of the other writers), can we not look at the men and ask the Spirit's direction in seeing Christ and the beauty of the new covenant?

It's the same with preachers today - it's the message that's important.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:35 AM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,364 posts, read 4,302,446 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Your father is a drunken wife beater, he raises a drunken wife beater, you raise a drunken wife beater, and so does your son, and so does his son.

But at the age of 60 you suddenly find Jesus, after raising three generations of wife beaters.


Just because you have seen the error of your ways, all is right with the world? No, you have only begun to suffer for your sin through the knowledge of the misery you have created.


Nothing supernatural at all about the concept found in the 4th Commandment.
Well... you skirted the question. The question was do YOU know your ancestoral sins? No one is contending the sins of the father do not revel themselves. Seek to understand then to be understood... that said, You seem to have a unloving spirit from your posts.

Expect me to challenge you for your condeming spirit.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,265 posts, read 5,488,464 times
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Default The wise and the unwise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Here's the thing your missing... what man throws on the pile of heaping waste, God takes and makes Paul a vessel of good will, knowledge and love. So good in fact, Paul previously a murderer, is accused of being a messenger of "easy believe-ism", to much forgiveness and grace. Jesus came from a family of murders, adulterers, and liars.... not a very good resume. Peter was a ignorant stinky ole fisherman , and what about those tax collectors etc. Just like the QB in football we expect the message to be delivered by a perceived leader, warrior, and elitist if you will. Someone we deem intellectually superior.

Forest Gump said it best... stupid is what stupid does... thank you Voltaire
To use Paul's own words in Romans 1:14-- "I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."

I'm not sure he believed it when it came to Jewish Christians however. All the disciples save Matthew were relatively "ignorant" or unlearned men. It is doubtful that any of them had much education (Matthew must have been able to count as a taxpayer!) or could even read--and that includes Peter. I think God was using the "foolish" in those early disciples to confound the world.

But Paul's education, not to mention his former persecution of Jewish Christians, may have been the reason he didn't spend much time with those who had walked and talked with Jesus--and who had observed Jesus in flesh and blood following His resurrection. His education gave him better access to the more educated gentiles and his preaching to them may be the reason his ministry eventually gained ascension over the more Jesus centered and Law based teaching of Christ's original followers.

And it's far easier to spread a faith that has no demands except believing, than it is one which follows the Law of the Jews--as the disciples were teaching.

Quote:
Matthew 5:17 .....'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.' ..... So Jesus confirms Himself that His job wasn't to come and abolish the law, but to fulfil. "Oh but He did fulfil the law, so we don't need to keep it."


Do you ever hear Christians saying this? (aside--all the time) Do you think it yourself? Jesus fulfilled the law, so we don't have to keep it? Have you ever wondered what that word "fulfil" actually means? If you look at the original greek word for fulfil, it actually means to "fill to the top" or to "cause to abound". In other words, to bring full meaning to the law, or to exhalt it! Now for clarity, let's reword that Bible verse with the new meaning ..... 'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to BRING FULL MEANING TO IT AND EXALT IT.' ..... The prophet Isaiah pointed to this in Isaiah 42:21 .....'The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.'
http://www.thebible-tencommandments....olish-law.html

Paul, the educated one, saw the ease with which his gospel could be spread if he removed the demand for righteous living and instead taught "Jesus Paid It All."

And in that regard, he was absolutely right. But the result, IMO, is that the wise confounded the unwise instead of the other way around.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:20 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,880 posts, read 3,971,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He was personally commissioned by Jesus as the apostle to the Gentiles. That's good enough for me.

Having said that, have you ever read through and studied his letter to the Romans? It is an amazing work. He had an amazing grasp on the Jewish OT, and it shows how he explained them in relation to Christ.
I would suggest then that you look over a current textbook on seizure disorders, I would recommend first a Neurology primer, such as the one by Kandall et al, 2012. Then move to reading a more in depth (and interesting) book such as the Oxford book, edited by Shorvon et al. Attend lectures at local hospitals, from local neurologists, and then go back and re-analyze Paul's conversion. You may find, as I have, that no "god" was needed, all that happened was a result of a temporal//focal seizure. ( i e the bright light, the audible voice, even other people perhaps s on the road)


Then look at Some of the writings of Freud, as he explains in a basic Oedipal way how Jesus, the Son, usurped the father, and then how Paul, the son, usurped Jesus. Again, this brings ego into play, and without a basic understanding of psychology one might not totally comprehend what is happening.

Finally, looking at Comparative mythology and socio-cultural aspects of Pauling Christianity in the context of abnormal psychology, one can see the prevalence of attributes consistent with personality disorder which are exhibited by Paul in his writings, and a socio-cultural acceptance of these behaviors and attitudes not only as the norm, but elevated to a level of divinity.
Reinforced again, by Torah mythology of a god of conceit, greed and jealousy, attributes which we in the 21st century are aware now are more an aspect of maladaptive performance, not something worthy of veneration in any case.

OR you can take the easy way out, retreat into the illusion of mythology, familiar though unhealthy. The choice is yours.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:23 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 5,148,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
Listing a few things that PAUL said to us women. This is not for the men who know better.

1 Timothy 2:9-15

NO braiding/broiding your hair.
NO gold nor pearls
NO expensive clothes
BE SILENT and don't teach men anything, they already know it all.
REMEMBER, Eve was the guilty one and all women must bear this guilt (of course God said that everyone is responsible for their own guilt/sin)--But PAUL said

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
BE QUIET in church

Of course God has no respect of persons. WHO should we follow. I don't think that Paul wrote 1 Timothy, he knew better and said so in other books.

These are from the gospel of Thomas--a book that many chose to ignore.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

Yeshua Bless You
Jesus never said anything foolishness. The garbage stated in the "gospel of Thomas" is foolishness. Jesus never said it. He never talked around in circles in confusing rhetoric like some libertarian hippie. He spoke with clarity in the power and voice of God. The Gospel of Thomas is not Scripture. It should be ignored.

God is not a "respecter of persons" meaning that He does not look at fallen Man with any favor. Rich or poor, small or great, we are all the same. Woman and Man have the same value, but God has established an "order" of government within the church and within the family units. To rebel against His ordained order is to rebel against Him. It honors God to obey and trust in Him.

It's very easy to take what was stated in the wrong light as you have. You did not even post what the Scriptures said but put in your own words. This is CHANGING the Word of God. It doesn't say "Don't teach men anything, they already know it all". This is mocking God's Word and is being deceitful to change the Word to make it say this.

I recommend anyone reading this to look at what the Bible actually says in these passages in context. I also recommend looking up to WHY the gospel of Thomas is NOT Scripture.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,570 posts, read 21,712,120 times
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Jesus never promised to send Paul to further teach us.

Personally, I follow Christ and His teachings, His promise of the Spirit of Truth, the comforter who dwells within, who is my teacher, who reminds me of his teachings which are now written in my heart..

He brings me His peace and has removed any fear man has laid upon me, because I trust the Holy Spirit not the teachings of man.

John14:16,17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


JOHN14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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