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Old 10-20-2013, 01:54 AM
 
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Quote:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,

because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the [new] covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one [the "Law"] obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Matthew 5:18

Quote:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So we have Jesus saying the Law will not pass away in the least before heaven and earth pass away, and then we have the writer of Hebrews proclaiming the Old Covenant made with Moses WILL pass away very soon to be replaced by the New Covenant that Jesus established.

So who is right? Jesus or Hebrews?
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:36 AM
 
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All the laws of the sacrifice which in the Old Covenant which the blood of goats and calves and bulls have been voided , and the laws of Moses which came from Moses and not of God have been void , and the temple rituals which was a shadow of the anointing of Lord Jesus has been removed for the spirit , and the feast which were a shadow of Jesus to come are not need for the New Covenant , .....and the covenant of the blessing of house of Isaac for salvation has been removed for this is also a shadow of Jesus to come , as the New covenant is expanded for all men and woman in the earth who are obedient to Jesus commands ....See Jesus has fulfilled the promise which all is fulfilled , just remains is the great Judgment of the creation ... The law that does remain is the law of sin and death which is contrary to the character of God and His purpose and essence , which will remain indefinitely
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:24 AM
 
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The law has not passed away. Iniquity is lawlessness. The law determines what sin is, without the law one is lawless, or with sin. Law breakers will not enter the Kingdom.

The curse of the law is all that has changed.

When Jesus stated that he came to fulfill the law, not to abolish the law, he came to fulfill the prophecy of the coming messiah.

Jesus became the Lamb and made way for the Holy Spirit so that God could abide in us individually.



You should note that regardless of your interpretation, God's people are Israel and Judah, no others.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Matthew 5:18




So we have Jesus saying the Law will not pass away in the least before heaven and earth pass away, and then we have the writer of Hebrews proclaiming the Old Covenant made with Moses WILL pass away very soon to be replaced by the New Covenant that Jesus established.

So who is right? Jesus or Hebrews?

To answer your question directly- They are both right.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:29 AM
 
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Thrillobyte,
Our Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law through shedding of his blood.

Because of that blood, we are now enjoying gratis the new convenant. This is one verse that supports the view that all will be saved eventually
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:32 AM
 
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Realize who the bible was written for or to, the people of the current day.

To the Hebrew, all they knew was the law, the new covenant was foreign to them, they had to be convinced that Jesus was the Messiah they had been waiting for.

And to the gentile who were pagan and worshiped pagan gods (and still do).


What you are doing is taking the gospels first and then looking backwards, that's why nothing make sense to you. Learn the OT first, then the NT makes sense.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Thrillobyte,
Our Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law through shedding of his blood.

Because of that blood, we are now enjoying gratis the new convenant. This is one verse that supports the view that all will be saved eventually

You must read the rest of the bible, what you stated is a world view, not a God-view. Following your reasoning you will not inter the Kingdom.

It is Written, that is not my opinion or translation.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Wow. It's not really all that hard. The Law was prescriptions and proscriptions of things which were appropriate to living in communion with God and community with man. Law will always fail in that regard as it can't address every issue and it tends to spawn lawyers as well as those who seek to apply every detail to every detail of life. The New Covenant recognized that what is required is the desire to do the things appropriate to that communion and community so that the condition of the heart is what is required. In this the purpose of Law is fulfilled and none of the things of Law pass away in purpose, though the forms may or may not be appropriate. It is no longer those forms that are the focus.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Thrillobyte,
This is one verse that supports the view that all will be saved eventually
Oh, I agree. That's why I singled it out.

Though from the reading it, it could look like God was making the promise exclusively for Israel, and that's the way Fundamentalist eternal tormentists would interpret it in order to deny the universality of the promise that Hebrews makes.

But the two verses prove one thing more than anything else: that 90% of the Bible is so ethereal that you can interpret it anyway you want. The Fundies will say it doesn't promise universal redemption; the uni's will say it does. And everybody is happy................that is until they get into each other's company and start discussing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
You must read the rest of the bible, what you stated is a world view, not a God-view. Following your reasoning you will not inter the Kingdom.

It is Written, that is not my opinion or translation.
I'll try, Shepherd.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Florida -
8,769 posts, read 10,867,395 times
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It's not that complicated -- or a contradiction.

It is simply saying that those who remain under the law; those who do not trust in Christ and accept His sacrifice on their behalf ... remain under the entire law-- as though Christ never came.

But, those who have trusted their lives to Christ, are under Grace in Christ, are no longer under the law, but, have been forgiven and are heirs to eternal life.

Last edited by jghorton; 10-20-2013 at 10:07 AM..
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