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Old 10-23-2013, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,050 posts, read 34,335,398 times
Reputation: 10466

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.
Having lived in a country with national health service, I can assure you that it does require you to sign up. Your name needs to be found in the books before you receive the services the citizens paid for. Same with God. Your name needs to be found in the Book Of Life.

.....books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life......Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
So "no one comes to the Father but by me", turns into "everyone comes to the Father without me"?

How does that work? Why would Jesus need to die on the cross?

And what about the other part of that?...
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:24 AM
 
Location: US
27,968 posts, read 15,053,894 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneye4detail View Post
Yeah, from what I've been taught recently, one has to believe and accept that Jesus has suffered and died for their sins. And since an atheist does not believe in God and therefore not Jesus, they are definitely OUT.
My question would be if you are some religion that doesn't believe that Jesus came here as God's son and died on the cross, then what?

Where does it say that?...
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is what people don't get. I don't know why. They always ask, Well, then why did Jesus have to die on the cross?"

Duh! He died so that everyone could get to heaven. Without Jesus' death and resurrection no one, not a single individual--even if they kept the law 99.9999% perfectly--could get to heaven. Just that .00001 slip would keep them out of God's presence. But Jesus' death was all-inclusive. It opened the gates of heaven wide to everyone. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Jesus' death and resurrection was vital to getting into heaven. Period. Only through Him do we come to the Father--through His death and resurrection.

A wide gate for a wide road...
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:35 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneye4detail View Post
I agree with Vizio.
The no one comes to the Father except through me means that IF you are a believer, then you go through Jesus when praying to the Father.

That has no bearing on whether or not someone is saved. It's so scary to read these types of things all over the Internet. So many people believe so many different things. I am NOT saying what I believe is true and everyone else is wrong. I'm just saying what I believe, just as everyone else is.

But as far as I know, the general consensus is you must believe in Jesus and that he died for your sins in order to be saved. Am I wrong?

Where does it say that?...
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:06 AM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,107,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Having lived in a country with national health service, I can assure you that it does require you to sign up. Your name needs to be found in the books before you receive the services the citizens paid for. Same with God. Your name needs to be found in the Book Of Life.

.....books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life......Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
The citizens of the UK are entitled to the National Health Service whether they believe it or not.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,050 posts, read 34,335,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The citizens of the UK are entitled to the National Health Service whether they believe it or not.
You need to get one these. Your name needs to be found in the books.

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Old 10-23-2013, 04:06 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,107,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You need to get one these. Your name needs to be found in the books.
The citizens of the uk are on the books. The card does not put you on the books,it is proof that you are.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:20 PM
 
535 posts, read 795,966 times
Reputation: 199
Default Then Why Didn't Jesus Say, "Everyone Is Saved, I Don't Need Die, Let's Party!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is what people don't get. I don't know why. They always ask, Well, then why did Jesus have to die on the cross?"

He died so that everyone could get to heaven. Without Jesus' death and resurrection no one, not a single individual--even if they kept the law 99.9999% perfectly--could get to heaven. Just that .00001 slip would keep them out of God's presence. But Jesus' death was all-inclusive. It opened the gates of heaven wide to everyone. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Jesus' death and resurrection was vital to getting into heaven. Period. Only through Him do we come to the Father--through His death and resurrection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is what Church Incorporated has taught you for centuries; that you have to make a public confession of your faith; that you have to be baptized; that you have to go to church on Sunday, and most importantly that you have to tithe, otherwise how would they get their millions to buy property around the world and take luxurious Caribbean vacations in the finest resorts.

What I think you don't get is that everything you been programmed to believe about salvation is exactly what they have wanted you to believe in order for THEM to benefit from all the disinformation they have been spoon-feeding you. You derive no benefit at all far as salvation goes because you believe EXACTLY what they want you to believe, not what Christ's gift of salvation is really all about. That's how they stay on top in power and that's how you stay on the bottom. From their POV what they say you need to do to get saved has absolutely NOTHING to do with you getting saved, just them getting your money and you believing they have all the answers that will get you into heaven. Someday these gullible Christians will catch onto the fact it's all about power-trips, guilt-trips and money trips with Christian leaders. Nothing more.
So we all get to heaven even if we deny the existence of God, blaspheme His name, murder, rape, sodomize. We might as well toss off the burden of morality, where'd that concept originate. Might as well toss all laws in the trash, where'd those originate anyhow.

You're correct, the concept on getting to heaven isn't difficult. The book of Romans explains it simply to those who'll listen to the truth.

Salvation is not dependent on baptism, church attendance, tithing, etc..

I'm glad you have it all figured out. But, I for one am not buying what you're selling.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:42 PM
 
3,311 posts, read 3,552,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Where does it say that?...
This is just what I was taught by fellow churchgoers. I'm sure they could quote you something from the Bible.
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