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Old 10-23-2013, 08:00 PM
 
4,220 posts, read 2,079,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.
No, he was saying that no one comes to the Father but by the son of man and His ways. That is why " no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit." That is why He said to follow Him. That is why He said ,As the Father sent me that is how I send you.

The son of man says; I am the gate ,anyone who enters by me will be saved.

If the son frees you, you shall truly be free.

Anything you ask in my name I will do so the Father may be glorified in the son.

No one knows the Son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the Son and whoever the Son wishes to reveal Him.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:18 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,864,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Moderator cut: delete

How does that work? Why would Jesus need to die on the cross?
You remember the law codes of Judaism? How extensive they were? Before Judaism, salvation came through the law. Before that, through (the possibly arbitrary idea of) righteousness. But atoning for others sins, Jesus made it possible for a new system to be made.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:39 PM
 
4,220 posts, read 2,079,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
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How does that work? Why would Jesus need to die on the cross?
He didn't' need to die on the cross. He said why the son of man came and that was to preach the good news, the word of God, to give life to His sheep. His sheep follow Him and continue in His teaching with the same words as the Father gave Him. As it is written;

" I must go and preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities because that is why I was sent."

"The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth."

"I came so my sheep would have life."

"The words I spoke to you are spirit and life."

(Father) "I have given them the words you gave me and they accepted them."

"As you sent me into the world so I sent them into the world."

Last edited by Peacegiver; 10-23-2013 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,758,355 times
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Thrill -

Keep walking with God. He'll show you many wonderful things. Your thread made me think of a song that I really like: "I AM LOVE" by Michael W. Smith.....


I am love. Michael W. Smith - YouTube

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Old 10-23-2013, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,758,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Having lived in a country with national health service, I can assure you that it does require you to sign up. Your name needs to be found in the books before you receive the services the citizens paid for. Same with God. Your name needs to be found in the Book Of Life.

.....books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life......Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Finn,

You know we all have two names, don't you? One that our parents give us when we are born, the other the name given to us by God the Father. There are two of you, as I've been pointing out to you over and over. The first man is earthly - the second man is spiritual. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We shall all be salted with fire. Some will be saved ONLY by fire. SAVED BY FIRE? Hmmmm..... not the best way to be saved. I am convinced that those who sit in the pews and listen to right wing preachers and teachers cannot hear what the Spirit is saying because they have had their hearing dulled by organized religion. I wish it were not so. But I also know that until you desire to know something from God that you cannot see, you will not be shown anything. If your mind is made up about everything in advance and you are satisfied, what could the Holy Spirit reveal to you?
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:47 AM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
He didn't' need to die on the cross. He said why the son of man came and that was to preach the good news, the word of God, to give life to His sheep. His sheep follow Him and continue in His teaching with the same words as the Father gave Him. As it is written;

" I must go and preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities because that is why I was sent."

"The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth."

"I came so my sheep would have life."

"The words I spoke to you are spirit and life."

(Father) "I have given them the words you gave me and they accepted them."

"As you sent me into the world so I sent them into the world."
Amen. His sacrifice was to endure the rejection of His Gospel of Love by savage and barbaric scourging and crucifixion in love for us all . . . even His torturers and murderers because they "knew not what they did." "No greater love has any man . . . "
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:43 AM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,486,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.
lololololol Close, but not quite.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:20 AM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,015,968 times
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Jesus had two basic missions to come to earth for. One was to preach the Good News and the other to seal it with His Atonement. MT 20:28 "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Jesus did pray three times that if there was an another way then let it be so but the Father assured Him there was no other way to get the worlds attention forever and for all generations by any other means. The Atonement was the means to redeem slaves to sin because it gets our attention by proving His greater love. Greater love because while we rejected Him yet He shows mercy by forgiving and offering New Life/Divine that is more careful as to how we live and judge others.

It is written that had they known He was the Lord of Glory, they would not have crucified Him. And had we known, neither would we reject in heart, but being slaves to sin we did not know until Christ opened our eyes. He is the ransom/redemption for many even as He said. Yes, He had to die as proof to mans sin nature to himself if without God. We were savage and ignorant just like them.

Ransom | Define Ransom at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ransom
noun 1. the redemption of a prisoner, slave

Last edited by garya123; 10-24-2013 at 02:59 AM..
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 570,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.
Your analogy works but you do not interpret it correctly. Just because all have the health care available they must act by going to the doctor to receive the benefits of what the government has done. It is not automatic. They are not automatically doctored. It's only made available if they accept it. Same with salvation. It's paid for and those who accept it receive the benefit of it.

Thanks for the analogy. I will use it to show people that salvation is not automatically applied to them just as the healthcare for all is not unless you accept it.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:43 AM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
Reputation: 2274
Thankfully Doctor Jesus was on call, and came to where we were(lost in a belief that God was against us). Even when they nailed him on the cross, he sent words of healing.

Father forgive them for they know not what they do. The great physician never sleeps.
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