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Old 10-24-2013, 03:57 AM
 
Location: US
28,010 posts, read 15,097,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneye4detail View Post
This is just what I was taught by fellow churchgoers. I'm sure they could quote you something from the Bible.

I've never seen it...
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:47 AM
 
4,220 posts, read 2,085,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Jesus had two basic missions to come to earth for. One was to preach the Good News and the other to seal it with His Atonement. MT 20:28 "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Jesus did pray three times that if there was an another way then let it be so but the Father assured Him there was no other way to get the worlds attention forever and for all generations by any other means. The Atonement was the means to redeem slaves to sin because it gets our attention by proving His greater love. Greater love because while we rejected Him yet He shows mercy by forgiving and offering New Life/Divine that is more careful as to how we live and judge others.

It is written that had they known He was the Lord of Glory, they would not have crucified Him. And had we known, neither would we reject in heart, but being slaves to sin we did not know until Christ opened our eyes. He is the ransom/redemption for many even as He said. Yes, He had to die as proof to mans sin nature to himself if without God. We were savage and ignorant just like them.

Ransom | Define Ransom at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ransom
noun 1. the redemption of a prisoner, slave
The life that the son of man gives is His word from the Father. It is that life that gives life to the dead in spirit. The word of God is life. Jesus death and resurrection were merely an example of what happens to those who accept His words and walk in them. They rise from the death of sin and darkness to life and light in the spirit of God.

"Walk in the light while you have it or darkness will come over you."

"What I have told you in the dark proclaim in the light."
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:33 AM
 
11,273 posts, read 11,296,076 times
Reputation: 3474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Having lived in a country with national health service, I can assure you that it does require you to sign up. Your name needs to be found in the books before you receive the services the citizens paid for. Same with God. Your name needs to be found in the Book Of Life.

.....books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life......Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Have YOU lived in another country with national healthcare? I can assure you that when you are taken into emergency and if you do not have a national healthcare card on you but have proof of citizenship they WILL treat you for the emergency and then deal with the details afterwards. They will NOT let you die right on the waiting room floor and dither because you didn't apply for a national healthcare card "in a timely manner".
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 571,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Have YOU lived in another country with national healthcare? I can assure you that when you are taken into emergency and if you do not have a national healthcare card on you but have proof of citizenship they WILL treat you for the emergency and then deal with the details afterwards. They will NOT let you die right on the waiting room floor and dither because you didn't apply for a national healthcare card "in a timely manner".
Do they automatically come and find you when you are sick or injured or must you seek help and accept it? I dare say they will not arrive when you are injured or sick unless you or someone seeks them. Just as salvation is not automatic upon anyone but only those who accept it. This is such a perfect analogy.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:11 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 5,162,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.
The passage means that IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE SON YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FATHER AND CAN NOT COME TO THE FATHER.

There has ALWAYS been a very limited access to God. In the Old Testament, ALL ritualistic ceremonies and sacrifices pointed to ONE PERSON, Jesus Christ.

ONLY through GOD'S Ordained Sacrifice -the BLOOD of JESUS Christ - can sinful Man approach a Holy God. Without His Sacrifice, we cannot talk to God. As of ourself we have NO MERIT to talk to God. No righteousness on our part.

ALL prayer and intercession MUST BE done through the High Priest. Under the New and Everlasting Covenant, this High Priest is JESUS Christ after the Order of Melchizedek. If one is attempting to pray to God OUTSIDE OF JESUS CHRIST, their prayers are not even being considered.

God has provided HIS way for sinful Man to approach Him in and through Jesus Christ. Abel provided the ordained sacrifice and his was accepted. Cain provided his works and fruit from the cursed ground and his sacrifice was not accepted. He tried to go outside of what God has established as acceptable.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:19 PM
 
4,428 posts, read 4,079,604 times
Reputation: 3569
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Was meditating (or medicating, as the case may be ) on this passage and suddenly the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of what Jesus was saying. It's like when a government passes national health insurance for its people. If you're a citizen of that country you are automatically covered. It doesn't require any action on your part except to go to the doctor when you're sick and you receive treatment.

Same with Jesus' sacrifice. His death opened the gates of heaven to everyone--atheist, agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, doesn't matter. We are all citizens of heaven now by virtue of His death and resurrection. It does NOT require a unilateral action on our part such as making a public proclamation "I accept Jesus as my Savior". If you were born you automatically are enrolled in "salvation assurance". When you die you come to the Father through Jesus automatically. "No one comes to the Father but by Me. My death makes it possible for you to come to the Father. Period." That is what Jesus was saying.

Unless im misunderstanding what you are saying, Why would a Atheist go to heaven when they die if they didnt accept Jesus as their savior?

Why would God want anything to do with a person that wants nothing to do with God in the 1st place. It would be hell to be stuck with a God for eternity that you hated and never even belived in the 1st place.

No way except through the father means exaclty what it says.

Romans 10:9-10


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: New England
32,302 posts, read 21,155,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Unless im misunderstanding what you are saying, Why would a Atheist go to heaven when they die if they didnt accept Jesus as their savior?

Why would God want anything to do with a person that wants nothing to do with God in the 1st place. It would be hell to be stuck with a God for eternity that you hated and never even belived in the 1st place.

No way except through the father means exaclty what it says.

Romans 10:9-10


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The verse you are quoting is not about going to heaven through Jesus Christ, it is very much about experiencing the salvation of God made known to us by Jesus Christ. The coming to the Father( the awareness of the reality of God and His true nature and character made known to us) is made known to us by Jesus Christ, there is no other way to the Father,simply because all other ways apart from Jesus Christ the Way, do not reveal God in the Light the way he did. Jesus Christ left us in no doubt that God loves us, that He's for us and that the love of a God is impossible to be separated from.

Yea, I have loved you with an age enduring love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn you.

Jesus Christ made known to the world this age enduring loving kindness of God to us.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:25 PM
 
40,177 posts, read 26,806,349 times
Reputation: 6057
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The verse you are quoting is not about going to heaven through Jesus Christ, it is very much about experiencing the salvation of God made known to us by Jesus Christ. The coming to the Father( the awareness of the reality of God and His true nature and character made known to us) is made known to us by Jesus Christ, there is no other way to the Father,simply because all other ways apart from Jesus Christ the Way, do not reveal God in the Light the way he did. Jesus Christ left us in no doubt that God loves us, that He's for us and that the love of a God is impossible to be separated from.
Yea, I have loved you with an age enduring love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn you.
Jesus Christ made known to the world this age enduring loving kindness of God to us.
Your posts are more and more enlightened, pcamps. I still cannot rep you yet . . . but this was excellent!!
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:09 PM
 
11,273 posts, read 11,296,076 times
Reputation: 3474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
The passage means that IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE SON YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FATHER AND CAN NOT COME TO THE FATHER.

There has ALWAYS been a very limited access to God. In the Old Testament, ALL ritualistic ceremonies and sacrifices pointed to ONE PERSON, Jesus Christ.

ONLY through GOD'S Ordained Sacrifice -the BLOOD of JESUS Christ - can sinful Man approach a Holy God. Without His Sacrifice, we cannot talk to God. As of ourself we have NO MERIT to talk to God. No righteousness on our part.

ALL prayer and intercession MUST BE done through the High Priest. Under the New and Everlasting Covenant, this High Priest is JESUS Christ after the Order of Melchizedek. If one is attempting to pray to God OUTSIDE OF JESUS CHRIST, their prayers are not even being considered.

God has provided HIS way for sinful Man to approach Him in and through Jesus Christ. Abel provided the ordained sacrifice and his was accepted. Cain provided his works and fruit from the cursed ground and his sacrifice was not accepted. He tried to go outside of what God has established as acceptable.
This is just so wrong on so many different levels. What kind of a God limits access to Himself? What kind of a father in this world would limit his children to come to him only certain minutes of the day, even if they had a critical problem that needed dealing with. Mike, you are sooooooooooo indoctrinated in all this rubbish the Church leaders have been feeding people for centuries that you cannot think beyond the pale. If you want to know how our Father behaves then just think of how you would behave to your children and multiply it by 10 to the quadrillionth power. All this stuff about God only making Himself available by appointment is church crock to keep them in power and make you feel like a bug that needs them to get access to God.

Quote:
Unless im misunderstanding what you are saying, Why would a Atheist go to heaven when they die if they didnt accept Jesus as their savior?

Why would God want anything to do with a person that wants nothing to do with God in the 1st place. It would be hell to be stuck with a God for eternity that you hated and never even belived in the 1st place.
This is typical human thinking. Why would I want to have anything to do with Fred if he doesn't want anything to do with me? And this kind of rationalizing gets transferred to the God of the universe. Incredible. The beauty of God's love is that He can make every single atheist who ever lived fall in love with Jesus and want Him with all their hearts simply by revealing His goodness to them. But every man in his own turn, as Paul said.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:56 PM
 
535 posts, read 797,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is just so wrong on so many different levels. What kind of a God limits access to Himself? What kind of a father in this world would limit his children to come to him only certain minutes of the day, even if they had a critical problem that needed dealing with. Mike, you are sooooooooooo indoctrinated in all this rubbish the Church leaders have been feeding people for centuries that you cannot think beyond the pale. If you want to know how our Father behaves then just think of how you would behave to your children and multiply it by 10 to the quadrillionth power. All this stuff about God only making Himself available by appointment is church crock to keep them in power and make you feel like a bug that needs them to get access to God.



This is typical human thinking. Why would I want to have anything to do with Fred if he doesn't want anything to do with me? And this kind of rationalizing gets transferred to the God of the universe. Incredible. The beauty of God's love is that He can make every single atheist who ever lived fall in love with Jesus and want Him with all their hearts simply by revealing His goodness to them. But every man in his own turn, as Paul said.
For the second time, what are you basing all this on?
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