U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-23-2013, 03:44 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I just preached through the Gospel of John. I preached it in context, and used the OT for reference. I am currently preaching through Acts. Last weekend I preached chapter 13, where Paul gave a sermon--and he referenced several OT passages. I went back and looked at each passage and explained it.

I really don't know what you mean when you say that no pastor ever preaches the full text. I'm sure you're probably smarter than me and you would leave my church complaining that I didn't preach all of it.

Scripture is specific as to who God's people are, who are they? And the answer is not everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-23-2013, 03:52 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Scripture is specific as to who God's people are, who are they? And the answer is not everyone.
You're correct. God elects some to salvation. 1 John 2:19 says that if you are a Christian, you'll remain a Christian. The false converts are the ones that stray away--they were never Christians to start with.

I get the feeling you're trying to lead me to a point....am I going there?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 03:55 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I told them that, quite honestly, God "ought to just throw the whole lot of us into hell". I then told them that without Christ, that's where we go. If you don't know him, you will go to hell.

My calls to repentance are always repentance and trust. Repentance doesn't earn salvation--but it is indicative of it.

I teach that once God saves us, he won't lose us. That's what the Bible teaches.

I've never taught that passage, to be honest.

I've taught Revelation in a Men's Bible study--and that he would be leading the armies of heaven back to judge the world. I have yet to preach through Revelation in church. I did compare/contrast his triumphant entry on Palm Sunday to his return in glory to judge the world in Revelation.

The Bible doesn't describe his appearance....he may have had long hair, maybe not. His hair length isn't relevant.

The scripture says there is nothing special about his appearance--I'm not aware of a verse that calls him homely. Nor does it mention his hair length.


Hair length is relevant, he is a Levite, he is also a Judean.


Isaiah 53:2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.


Calls to repent are throughout.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.


Luke 24:7

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.


And I could go on and on......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 03:57 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You're correct. God elects some to salvation. 1 John 2:19 says that if you are a Christian, you'll remain a Christian. The false converts are the ones that stray away--they were never Christians to start with.

I get the feeling you're trying to lead me to a point....am I going there?

The Northern Tribes and the House of Judah.

Those are his people.

Show me anywhere otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 04:10 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
The Northern Tribes and the House of Judah.

Those are his people.

Show me anywhere otherwise.
So "God's people" are the Jewish people? Not Christians? Jesus would disagree.

John 6:37-40: "37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 04:13 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Hair length is relevant, he is a Levite, he is also a Judean.
He was of the tribe of Judah. He was not a Levite.

Quote:

Isaiah 53:2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
Nothing there about him being "homely" or having short hair.
Quote:
Calls to repent are throughout.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
OK? If you turn from your own ways to Christ, repentance is included.
Quote:

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.


Luke 24:7

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.


And I could go on and on......
And you'd likely make as much of a hash of those scriptures as the ones you're already quoting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 04:24 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He was of the tribe of Judah. He was not a Levite.



Nothing there about him being "homely" or having short hair.


OK? If you turn from your own ways to Christ, repentance is included.

And you'd likely make as much of a hash of those scriptures as the ones you're already quoting.


He could not have had the title rabbi if not a Levite. The disciples called him rabbi (teacher), he also taught in the synagogues and he could not have without the title rabbi.

The Levites where to wear white and cut/trim their hair in a specific manor, long hair could only have been worn on those who where taking the Nazarite vow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 04:42 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
He could not have had the title rabbi if not a Levite.
Where do you get that from? He is actually a priest in the line of Melchizedek--which supercedes the Mosaic covenant and the Levitical priesthood.
Quote:


The disciples called him rabbi (teacher), he also taught in the synagogues and he could not have without the title rabbi.

The Levites where to wear white and cut/trim their hair in a specific manor, long hair could only have been worn on those who where taking the Nazarite vow.
I'm still waiting for you to give me any evidence that he was a Levite. He is a King--and he he came from the line of David, of the tribe of Judah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 05:28 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Where do you get that from? He is actually a priest in the line of Melchizedek--which supercedes the Mosaic covenant and the Levitical priesthood.


I'm still waiting for you to give me any evidence that he was a Levite. He is a King--and he he came from the line of David, of the tribe of Judah.

This is the closest to what I was taught several years ago, even though the author here is wrong on some points-

Where does the Bible give the proof that Jesus was a descendant of the PRIEST line of Aaron. Luke 1:5 gives the names of John the baptist’s parents. “THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.” This woman who was of the linage of Aaron was also the cousin of Mary the mother of Jesus. Luke 1:35-36 “And the angel answered and said unto her (Mary), The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.” Mary even went and lived with Elisabeth for 3 months, and returned home just before the birth of John the second cousin of Jesus. Read the full account in Luke the 1st chapter.
The duality of Jesus is further spoken of in Hebrews 6:20-7:1 where it says “…Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God.” He was a King, and a PRIEST. The people of 2,000 years ago wanted Jesus as a Davidic King, but He came as the Levitical High Priest, and ironically today, the people want Jesus to be the sacrificing priest, but He is coming as the Davidic King. Not only are the churchites looking for the wrong Jesus, but they expect Him to return to the wrong place. He will never go back to Palestine to the once Kingdom of Judah, for He went there as the High Priest 2,000 years ago, “Judah was his sanctuary (Temple)”. When He returns as the King, He will go to the Kingdom of Israel, for “Israel his dominion (Kingdom).”


Jesus the Levite Priest - Truth from God








You might find this interesting-
Jesus and the Levite Redemption of the Firstborn
By Kyle Pope

The last plague which the Lord brought upon Egypt, was the death of the firstborn. After Pharaoh lost his own child, he finally relented and let the Israelites go (Exodus 12:29-31) When this plague came upon the land, the firstborn among Israel were spared only because of the blood of the sacrificial lamb which was placed on the doorposts and lintels of their homes (Exodus 12:21-23). This event, in which death “passed over” Israel, would be memorialized yearly as one of the most important holy days of the Jewish calendar - Passover.
The annual observance of Passover was not the only time when the salvation of the firstborn was recognized. Given that God had delivered the lives of the firstborn of Israel, from that day forward God instructed - “Consecrate to Me all the firstborn, whatever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and beast; it is Mine.” (Exodus 13:2). Every firstborn male animal belonged to the Lord. In the case of clean animals they were to be offered in sacrifice (Exodus 13:15b). Some unclean animals (i.e. the donkey) and all human beings were not sacrificed but rather redeemed (Exodus 13:13; cf. Numbers 18:15). This meant that a certain amount of money was to be offered to the Lord for the redemption of a human being. The redemption price was five shekels (Numbers 3:47-48).
When the tabernacle was set up and God set apart the tribe of Levi, the consecration of the firstborn again became significant. God instructed Moses - “…Number all the firstborn males of the children of Israel from a month old and above, and take the number of their names” (Numbers 3:40). When this was done the total number of those one month old and above was 22,273 (Numbers 3:43). God then instructed Moses - “Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the livestock of the Levites instead of their livestock. The Levites shall be Mine: I am the LORD” (Numbers 3:45). Instead of only the firstborn of the Levites being consecrated, God declared that the entire Levite tribe would be His own. They would be neither redeemed, nor sacrificed but they would serve the Lord continually in worship connected with the tabernacle. These Levites, 22,000 in number, were accepted by the Lord as a substitute for the same number of those of the firstborn of Israel. Only the 273 firstborn of the children of Israel above the number of the Levites had to be redeemed (Numbers 3:46). Five shekels each was paid for the 273 non-Levite Israelites above the number of the Levites, to a total of 1365 shekels and the money was given to Aaron and his sons (Numbers 3:47- 51).
This situation shows the willingness of the Lord to accept a substitute in the place of the firstborn. Even though the Lord had commanded that firstborn males were to be redeemed, at that time 22,000 Israelites were dismissed from their liability to God. The Lord accepted the lives of the 22,000 Levites as payment in full towards His claim to the ownership of the firstborn.
This is exactly what the redemption of Jesus Christ accomplished on behalf of mankind:
1. Jesus redeemed mankind from their debt of sin. The Bible teaches us that sin incurs a debt. Paul teaches us that - “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). The Psalmist reminds the rich man that his wealth cannot redeem this debt. He declares - “Those who trust in their wealth and boast in the multitude of their riches, none of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him -- for the redemption of their souls is costly, and it shall cease forever” (Psalm 49:6-8). Only Jesus can pay this debt. Peter tells the Christian - “…you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (I Peter 1:18-19).
2. God accepted Jesus’ life in place of the lives of mankind. As God’s firstborn, Jesus was already consecrated to the Father. Yet, just as God accepted the Levites in place of the Israelite firstborn, God accepted Jesus’ life in place of ours. The Apostle John tells us what God did in sending Christ - “…He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 4:10). Paul tells us that Jesus - “…gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father” (Galatians 1:4).
3. Christ’s death paid man’s redemption price.Not all of the Levites were the firstborn. They owed no redemption price themselves. Even so, their lives paid a price that they did not owe. Jesus owed no sin debt himself, but God accepted Jesus’ life as payment in full for man’s redemption price. Paul tells us - “…He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (II Corinthians 5:21).
4. Christ’s substitute will only redeem those who come to Him. The substitution of the Levites redeemed most of the firstborn among the Israelites. Yet, for 273 of the firstborn of Israel, the consecration of the Levites meant nothing, their redemption price was still required. Unlike the redemption which the Levites afforded the Israelites, Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to pay the redemption price for all mankind. Even so, for some the redemption of Christ accomplishes nothing, their redemption price is still required. If they refuse to come to Him, the debt of sin must still be paid!



Jesus and the Levite Redemption of the Firstborn












I understand that Jesus is the Hight Priest and was to replace the Levitical system, but there must have been some kind of connection for the people of the day to realize that Jesus was the replacement. Commentary on this is all over the place........I'll just let it rest here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 05:34 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,607 times
Reputation: 31
Pastor, I don't mean to challenge you, I actually enjoy challenging myself.

To the point what the church teaches, I knew for years they were not telling or teaching me what I needed to know. Not until I took it upon myself with the help of others in bible study did I begin to learn.
And that is the point, I've just begun to learn. It took me a couple of years to get through the bible the first time, I'm going back through it again.


I don't mean to come off as knowing it all, I have not even begun to scratch the surface. That said, I've learned more in the last three years than I did in three decades in the church.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top