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Old 04-07-2015, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
There are NO valid reasons to believe that the first Christmas was indeed celebrated
by the visiting Magi on December 25, 2 B.C because there was no such thing called Christmas back then anyways and the 1srt recorded Celebration of Christmas was around 336AD by Rome, because Jews never really put emphasis on birthdays.

God does EVERYTHING according to HIS calendar. Jesus was born during the Feast of Tabernacles which is late September/early October. Jesus was 33 1/2 years old, so if you forward 6 months from the Feast of Tabernacles, it take you right to Passover, which is when he died., so A late December birth is already ruled out.
Thank you so much for posting and clarifying Jesus Birthday.
Keep m coming....
We need more people to come back to the Lord and to abandon all other pantheons.
And if you havent guessed I agree with your op.
Gods Calendar is very important.
Feast days have deep Spiritual meaning.

http://biblelight.net/feasts.htm

Last edited by pinacled; 04-07-2015 at 03:34 PM..
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,878 posts, read 4,985,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Leviticus 23
33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord.


Even though we are not commanded to celebrate Jesus birth, there is no command not to celebrate the birth of Christ either.

If Christmas were changed to the 15th day of September (the 7th month of biblical calendar) during the feast of tabernacles at the time Jesus was actually born, do you think people would still celebrate it?

Based off of some wise men giving gifts to Jesus, NOT each other, Would there still be gift giving?
Would we shop until we drop on things we cant afford?
Would there be a Santa clause and elf's?
Would we still put up a Christmas tree?
Would there be missile toe?




THIS IS NOT A DONT OBSERVE XMAS POST, BUT RATHER TO MAKE YOU THINK OF THE SILLY THINGS WE DONT THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS BIRTH.

Jesus was born in a booth on the feast of booths as being the Lord of the booths and appointed to be born exactly on the first day of booths as all the traditions and rituals show him to be born.

There was no choice in the matter of Jesus having to be circumcised on the 8th day of booths and the day teaches us circumcision.

The life of Jesus was planned out and everything about his life had an appointed day. An appointed day to die and an appointed day to be the unleavened bread, and an appointed day to be the firstfruit, and an appointed day that he would give his spirit, and an appointed day of the wedding, the consummation of the wedding and the wedding banquet.

The entire cycle ends on the great 8th day of circumcision, Shemini Atzereth is the day that the law begins and the law ends, and the law was given on Shemini Atereth, and the greatest outpouring of spirit is promised for the Atzereth of the fall Holy days.

Pentecost is the Atzereth of the spring and first coming of Christ that ended the spring season at the given of the promise on the conclusion day{Atzereth}.

The rain prayed for in the spring is only the dew, they don't pray for the rain in the spring BECAUSE the rain of the fall is such a flood, and we are instructed to pray for the promise of this rain in the last days, and Zechariah 14 shows the day unfolding when night has become day.


The feast of Tabernacles was unlike anything anyone has ever seen. Imagine tents and Sukkah as far as the eye could see, and on every rooftop, in every corner where you experience the biggest family reunion of all time when the whole country came back to camp for 7 days, and the 8th day was a Holy day within itself where the congregation is circumcised because the feast of Tabernacles is given specifically for the 70 gentile nations and the bull of Sukkot is sacrificed for the gentiles, but after 7 days of a gentile camping in his booth, that gentile is sent home on the 8th day because he has no part in Shemini Atzereth unless he is amongst the adoption and has become co heirs and counted amongst Ephraim or Judah.

It was the feast of lights because when the night came, there was no courtyard in all of Jerusalem that was not extremely lit up from the lights of the Temple and it appeard to be day time. Everyone was demanded to be in joy and people would be shouting and screaming in tears of Joy in a carnival type atmosphere, and they partied all night long with all their family waiting for the dawn.

The dawn brought the desire of everyone's heart, the great water ceremony began and the divisions of priests would go in a parade to collect the water, and the wine, and the branches, and it would have been so surreal hearing all the branches being waved in the wind like a great storm coming. Everyone was in parade marching in Joy as they brought the wine and the water. The alter had two bowls that are built into the alter and these bowls have holes at the bottom to when you pour in, it pours out and people are shouting,'' SAVE NOW,'' in great happiness and joy.


That water and that wine spilling out would only shadow the water and the wine spilling out on the ground in a consummation when the veil was rent in two, and Jesus was the seed that died and was planted into the womb of the Earth and 3 days later, the earth bore it's first fruit, it's first son born.


But we celebrate Christ's birth on the first day of Tabernacles in joy that we have seen the star of Bethlehem through the opening in our booths, and we have great joy that a child has been born in the booth.

Our covering.

He who is found in his booth on Sukkot has no fear of the fire because it is a protection from the fire as Zechariah 14 shows.



But the idea is for the Jew and the gentile to once again become one, and this can only be accomplished through having the same feast days.



But above all things, if we are living in the last days, then we are waiting upon the great promise of the greatest outpouring of spirit that man has ever known, and this spirit is promised to be given to those who prepare for Shemini Atzereth, and who wait and believe the promise of God. It is DOUBLE what was given to man on Pentecost.
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Old 04-07-2015, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,258,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinacled View Post
Thank you so much for posting and clarifying Jesus Birthday.
Keep m coming....
We need more people to come back to the Lord and to abandon all other pantheons.
And if you havent guessed I agree with your op.
Gods Calendar is very important.
Feast days have deep Spiritual meaning.

THE BIBLICAL FEAST DAYS - GOD'S CALENDAR


To be honest about it; most of the feasts and holy days are part of Catholic catechism. It worked out so well most everyone adopted them.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:14 PM
 
2,790 posts, read 2,283,290 times
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I would only celebrate, Mary's Christ Mass, if Jesus ' Disciples had.
They did not. That's good enough for me.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,085,293 times
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As a person of faith I realize Christmas as we know it is based on a mix of Pagan and Christian rituals. At any rate, I also am of the firm belief that Jesus was born in a warmer month like September or October, and that does not bother me one bit! Now the funny part, and not to take this topic too off track, why do we have a set birth date for Jesus Christ as in December 25th, but not a set date of death, or ressurection? Aren't Good Friday and Easter the most important holidays in Christianity given the crucifixion (Good Friday) and the ressurection (Easter Sunday). Given the circumstances and the significance of these 2 events, why wouldn't those dates be set?
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,878 posts, read 4,985,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
As a person of faith I realize Christmas as we know it is based on a mix of Pagan and Christian rituals. At any rate, I also am of the firm belief that Jesus was born in a warmer month like September or October, and that does not bother me one bit! Now the funny part, and not to take this topic too off track, why do we have a set birth date for Jesus Christ as in December 25th, but not a set date of death, or ressurection? Aren't Good Friday and Easter the most important holidays in Christianity given the crucifixion (Good Friday) and the ressurection (Easter Sunday). Given the circumstances and the significance of these 2 events, why wouldn't those dates be set?

In Christianity.

But Easter and Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:31 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,930,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Leviticus 23
33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord.


Even though we are not commanded to celebrate Jesus birth, there is no command not to celebrate the birth of Christ either.

If Christmas were changed to the 15th day of September (the 7th month of biblical calendar) during the feast of tabernacles at the time Jesus was actually born, do you think people would still celebrate it?

Based off of some wise men giving gifts to Jesus, NOT each other, Would there still be gift giving?
Would we shop until we drop on things we cant afford?
Would there be a Santa clause and elf's?
Would we still put up a Christmas tree?
Would there be missile toe?




THIS IS NOT A DONT OBSERVE XMAS POST, BUT RATHER TO MAKE YOU THINK OF THE SILLY THINGS WE DONT THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS BIRTH.
So, I gather you only celebrate Jesus once or twice a year when it come around on the calender?
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:39 PM
 
4,423 posts, read 4,072,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
So, I gather you only celebrate Jesus once or twice a year when it come around on the calender?
Jesus is part of life daily, but the point of that post back then was to address the multiple things that go into Christmas that have nothing to do with Christ.
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:52 PM
 
40,100 posts, read 26,767,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
In Christianity.
But Easter and Christmas has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Jesus is part of life daily, but the point of that post back then was to address the multiple things that go into Christmas that have nothing to do with Christ.
Who appointed you the arbiter of what is and is not Christian??? Whatever a Christian does to honor Christ is Christian because that is what they INTEND to do. Where did you ever get this silly idea that people can celebrate something they do not INTEND to celebrate???
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Old 04-08-2015, 04:11 PM
 
4,423 posts, read 4,072,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Who appointed you the arbiter of what is and is not Christian??? Whatever a Christian does to honor Christ is Christian because that is what they INTEND to do. Where did you ever get this silly idea that people can celebrate something they do not INTEND to celebrate???
Its not a matter of what they intend, its what God says we are to do and he made it quite clear not to worship him in the same exact manner that the pagans worshiped their fake idol Gods.
Deuteronomy 12:30-31

30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.


Ill provide of one many sources that say the same thing and pretty much show the name Jesus was just slapped on top of everything they used to do and people are clueless.

How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?
A.Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B.The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C.In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians

D.The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

E.Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

F.The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.” Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681. However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

G.Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”

H.As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.” On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

The Origins of Christmas Customs

A.The Origin of Christmas Tree
Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”. Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.

B.The Origin of Mistletoe
Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

C.The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).

D.The Origin of Santa Claus

a.Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.

b.Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil” who sentenced Jesus to death.

c.In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

d.The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

e.In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

f.In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

g.Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

h.The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

i.In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.
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