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Old 10-25-2013, 11:14 PM
 
20,419 posts, read 9,837,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Still, what is the actual nature of the fire in the lake of fire which was symbolized by the literal fire in the garbage dump of Gehenna outside of Jerusalem in Jesus' day?
In a safe haven, away from the theologies of men; the dross will be removed, purifying the people.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Really, then why is it said in the scriptures that those who are overcomers shall not be HURT by the 2nd death? It doesn't say they will not go through it - but that they will not be HURT by it. And also, explain to me how if God is a Consuming Fire that we can dwell with him. We will have to be made fire-proof, right? This speaks of being purified. Fire purifies. Some people are only saved by fire and have nothing to show for, whereas others have built on the sure foundation (Jesus Christ) will receive certain rewards. I believe some of those rewards are given while we are in mortal bodies -- it is a REWARD to KNOW HIM before we are changed. The bible does not deny that some people are more blessed than others. Why did Abraham (father of the faithful) beg God to spare the wicked city? And why was Moses (one who quaked with fear) angry with the people he had to lead? Just a few things to think about.

Thought provoking!
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:54 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,474 times
Reputation: 31
Our Kingdom Cannot Be Shaken

Hebrews 12
28Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29for our God is a consuming fire.
Cross References
Exodus 15:7
"In the greatness of your majesty you threw down those who opposed you. You unleashed your burning anger; it consumed them like stubble.

Exodus 24:17
To the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 9:3
But be assured today that the LORD your God is the one who goes across ahead of you like a devouring fire. He will destroy them; he will subdue them before you. And you will drive them out and annihilate them quickly, as the LORD has promised you.

2 Samuel 22:9
Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it.

Psalm 97:3
Fire goes before him and consumes his foes on every side.

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: "Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?"



Fire consumes the adversary.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,083 posts, read 34,359,223 times
Reputation: 10481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I've seen about 180 threads on this topic in the past year or so I've been posting here. Seriously...why must this debate continue? Hell is a Biblical teaching. The church has believed it from the beginning. If you don't want to believe it, there is nothing we can do. You'll just continue to roll your own theology.
It amazes me how atheists, universalists and such can't stop talking about things they do not believe in. It is almost as if they are trying to convince themselves of something.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:09 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,474 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
Really, then why is it said in the scriptures that those who are overcomers shall not be HURT by the 2nd death? It doesn't say they will not go through it - but that they will not be HURT by it. And also, explain to me how if God is a Consuming Fire that we can dwell with him. We will have to be made fire-proof, right? This speaks of being purified. Fire purifies. Some people are only saved by fire and have nothing to show for, whereas others have built on the sure foundation (Jesus Christ) will receive certain rewards. I believe some of those rewards are given while we are in mortal bodies -- it is a REWARD to KNOW HIM before we are changed. The bible does not deny that some people are more blessed than others. Why did Abraham (father of the faithful) beg God to spare the wicked city? And why was Moses (one who quaked with fear) angry with the people he had to lead? Just a few things to think about.

Out of the hundreds of thousands that Moses led out of Egypt, only three of them were allowed to enter the Promise Land. They wondered the wilderness for the 40 years to kill off the entire generation. Even Moses was not allowed to enter because of his disobedience. God refers to them as a stiff-necked rebellious people. They whined and complained and refused to trust God, otherwise they would have gone straight to the Land.
This is and example of the price paid for disobedience, one will not enter the Kingdom who is rebellious.


Abraham did not beg, he argued with and challenged God, as I see it.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:14 AM
 
670 posts, read 668,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Adam, Noah and Moses never had a bible, so how were they supposed to know ?.


If some one decides your guilty but never bothers to tell you that your commiting a crime or that youl be punished we see that as darn right evil and it is.
A person must be informed of the rules first, because if their not its just a simple mistake because they didn't know.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:24 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,636,802 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Can't you simply ignore those threads that "bother" you? No one is forcing you to read or participate. Or do you have something against the freedom of speech on certain topics?
Actually, it's hard to click a link in these forums without a discussion of universalism popping up. As Finn commented...for something you don't believe in, you sure talk about it a lot.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: New England
32,238 posts, read 21,119,376 times
Reputation: 2280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It amazes me how atheists, universalists and such can't stop talking about things they do not believe in. It is almost as if they are trying to convince themselves of something.
It amazes me that those who believe in eternal torment fight universalism tooth and nail whenever it is brought up.

Leave these universalists alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail, but if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these universalists ; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.

Do you actually believe you can do nothing against the truth ?.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,797 posts, read 7,712,915 times
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Eusebius is like so many today. The Bible wasn't written to their specifications, so they deny it. However, I should point out that Jesus does mention the whole idea of hell, punishment, judgment, condemnation many times. But that isn't enough for some. Maybe some of these people can tell us how many times God's wrath upon the world must be mentioned for them to believe.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:39 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,636,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It amazes me that those who believe in eternal torment fight universalism tooth and nail whenever it is brought up.
Why wouldn't we? The natural outcome of preaching universalism is to see the Gospel ignored. Why bother to respond to it? Most pagans are completely happy in their pagan lifestyle. They already have their "best life now" and don't see a need for a passifist Jesus who just wants to love them more.
Quote:
Leave these universalists alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail, but if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these universalists ; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.
Mormonism is growing by huge numbers every year. As is Islam. Both of them are of human origin...yet they are growing. So what's your point?
Quote:
Do you actually believe you can do nothing against the truth ?.
Of course not--that's why I'm going to fight heresy wherever I see it.
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