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Old 10-29-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,261 posts, read 2,150,245 times
Reputation: 1902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
So would I be right in assuming that folks on this forum think that everyone should be provided with fresh fruits and vegetables, low fat milk and dairy products, a reliable car, safe clean home, good schools, cable, Air conditioning, central heat, cell phones, health care as good as anyone else with a job gets, and absolutely no work requirement at all. All they need to do is ask for it and it should be supplied, and they can choose whether they want to work or not.
I do believe that when a person is in need of temporary assistance to feed themselves or their family, the role of society is to help them. The key is temporary (barring a disability or something which can be more permanent). Putting a roof over their head is better than having them live on the street - again temporary as the goal should be to help the person get to a place where they can again support themselves. Long term I do believe it is better to provide fresh food as it is far more nutritionally sound than the crap that comes in a box ready to be heated up. Cell phone, cable etc. - I don't have those myself, why would we need to provide them to others? Reliable car? Hrm, I only have a motorcycle (and this is in Canada). As a Canadian I do support universal healthcare for all, so that is a moot question to me. Decent school - well do you mean getting a proper education vs. having to survive not getting shot - then yeah, everyone deserves that. Clean safe home? Depends on how that is defined. A home free of abuse should be the norm for everyone, not a luxury only the employed can afford.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,213,152 times
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Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Long term I do believe it is better to provide fresh food as it is far more nutritionally sound than the crap that comes in a box ready to be heated up.
Small problem with that .... people who are truly hungry would take "crap that comes in a box" over against eating literal mud cakes like they do in other parts of the world. Also "fresh" food requires what the wealthy take for granted .... refrigeration or a short shelf life. So what's worse .... "crap that comes in a box" or rotten food half eaten?
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Cell phone, cable etc. - I don't have those myself, why would we need to provide them to others? Reliable car? Hrm, I only have a motorcycle (and this is in Canada)... As a Canadian I do support universal healthcare for all, so that is a moot question to me.
I'd rather have a country that allows people to decided for themselves to have no universal healthcare and a reliable car (that used to what the US which was founded on .... personal freedoms and responsibilities) ....vs. ...... 1000 squealing pigs made ready for skin drafts and brain trauma specialists for motorcycle accident victims who have universal healthcare. Your chosen greater risk mode of transportation is not societies problem. ..... and yes I used to ride .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Decent school - well do you mean getting a proper education vs. having to survive not getting shot - then yeah, everyone deserves that.
I guess it would depend on what "a proper education" is .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Clean safe home? Depends on how that is defined. A home free of abuse should be the norm for everyone, not a luxury only the employed can afford.
Have you ever researched how many people that are abused come from employed households .... in other words, if you don't want to be stereotyped, then don't stereotype the unemployed
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,261 posts, read 2,150,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I'd rather have a country that allows people to decided for themselves to have no universal healthcare and a reliable car (that used to what the US which was founded on .... personal freedoms and responsibilities) ....vs. ...... 1000 squealing pigs made ready for skin drafts and brain trauma specialists for motorcycle accident victims who have universal healthcare. Your chosen greater risk mode of transportation is not societies problem. ..... and yes I used to ride .....
Perhaps you can demonstrate to me where I can find the Christian teaching to deny healthcare to those in need? You sound like you are okay to let people die in the street all in the name of freedom. Sorry to me that is not freedom, that is the sign of a callous society - definitely not one that claims to have the teachings of Christianity as its base.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,429 posts, read 5,546,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Perhaps you can demonstrate to me where I can find the Christian teaching to deny healthcare to those in need? You sound like you are okay to let people die in the street all in the name of freedom. Sorry to me that is not freedom, that is the sign of a callous society - definitely not one that claims to have the teachings of Christianity as its base.

What Jesus gave freely (healing--differentiating Him from other "healers" that roamed Palestine in His day), is thought by many Americans to be not just for those who work---but for those who work AND earn enough money to buy health coverage from a profit making insurance company. We whisper sweet nothings in God's ear in the hope that He will not see the brutality we practice one another. Freedom is about having a choice. Liberty is making the right choice. As a nation we have made a choice with regard to health care, but it certainly has not, even with the ACA, resulted in liberty for all Americans. Thanks for pointing out to all on this thread that the common misconception among Americans that Canadians hate their health care system is simply not true.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,581 posts, read 21,772,880 times
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Love your neighbor as yourself, while not letting your left hand know what the right one is doing, is a good policy when it comes to the less fortunate among us for whatever their reason. I have walked in their shoes and because of predjudice and requirements to "Dontcha think you owe our church now to attend" or the TV Camera's, or the the rude looks from some of the volunteers, many people do without.. Before Jesus fed th 5000 he never asked why they didn't pack a lunch, or how many sheep, goats or money they had. He knew they were hungry. Ps makes it a little difficult to make a nice looking post when nothing seems to be working today..Smilies Edit, Formating, etc
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Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-29-2013 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,213,152 times
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somebody needs to inform CD that the site is not properly functioning
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,581 posts, read 21,772,880 times
Reputation: 18158
Moderator cut: information Just letting you all know that the CD Techies are hard at work fixing all the problems today
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,213,152 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
Perhaps you can demonstrate to me where I can find the Christian teaching to deny healthcare to those in need? You sound like you are okay to let people die in the street all in the name of freedom. Sorry to me that is not freedom, that is the sign of a callous society - definitely not one that claims to have the teachings of Christianity as its base.
Jesus didn't preach a social equality ... and in the US nobody is denied medical care (that's if you ever bothered to read the notice sign in any emergency room).The truth is there will always be financially poor Matthew 26:11 and it's been more than sufficiently shown that the US by far leads any nation in caring for the needy. There is a difference between caring for the needy and the person whom God calls the sluggard.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,429 posts, read 5,546,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Jesus didn't preach a social equality ... and in the US nobody is denied medical care (that's if you ever bothered to read the notice sign in any emergency room).The truth is there will always be financially poor Matthew 26:11 and it's been more than sufficiently shown that the US by far leads any nation in caring for the needy. There is a difference between caring for the needy and the person whom God calls the sluggard.
This is incorrect on so many levels, and unscriptural as well.

Acts 4:32-35 NIV

Quote:
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything that they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them and brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah, the King of Kings didn't preach a social equality?????!!!!! He sat down with sinners, not the Sanhedrin. He broke bread with tax collectors like Zacchaeus, not with Pharisees or Roman authorities.

And in the U.S., we will treat people in an emergency room for EMERGENT conditions, but we won't provide them with preventive care to keep them from arriving at the emergency room in critical condition.

The Revrandy's nation figured out long ago that ALL it's people are valuable when it comes to health. You may not be able to get plastic surgery as quickly as in the U.S., but their emergency rooms perform well in truly emergent situations, particularly because they aren't packed with people who need to see a doctor instead of go to the emergency room because they lack care.

Healing was one of the things Jesus gave freely, but people who claim this nation is Christian, cry about costs to care for the destitute.

Starve them, refuse to care for their physical needs, demand they follow Jesus in order to need help they desperately need---the one thing we need to do is remove "under God" from our pledge of allegiance so that at least we do not mock Him with our actions toward our own people.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:35 PM
 
535 posts, read 799,531 times
Reputation: 199
When John Bradford was imprisoned by Mary Tudor in the Tower of London it's reported that one day as he watched prisoners being led to their execution he said, "There but for the grace of God goes John Bradford." Over time this became, There but for the grace of God go I.

Many are living hand to mouth and paycheck to paycheck. The necessary safety net to provide for society's needy can not solely be the government's responsibility. It takes a team effort of faith based and secular charities and organizations, plus governments working together.

Providing a needed, temporary hand up is not providing an uneeded permanent hand out. There will always be those who jerk the system, but they are not the majority, though they get the majority of news air time, because no news is good news has been turned on its head to mean good news is not news.

I do see a definite problem in our school food programs. Fresh fruits and vegetables often go from kid's plates into the school trash. Many school districts have opted out of the 'fresh food' lunch initiative because students would rather bring a Hostess cupcake from home than eat a banana provided by the school. Some kids are skipping lunch all together. It's a shame that's where we're at, but it is what it is. A lunch menu change isn't enough to correct a child's bad food choices when mom brings home junk from the grocery store.
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