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Old 11-06-2013, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Avery Co., NC
944 posts, read 837,328 times
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http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/...erving-Others/

http://www.openbible.info/topics/helping_others

Last edited by Watchman57; 11-06-2013 at 07:04 AM.. Reason: added link
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:35 AM
 
17,579 posts, read 10,651,760 times
Reputation: 8502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post

When you turn those people away from a food bank or from charity and point at their Rolls Royce sitting at the curb, be sure to tell them that you are refusing them in the name of Jesus.
Balance is required so that resources are not wasted. We have this command for those not needy.

KJV 2 Thess 3: 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:17 AM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,686,574 times
Reputation: 32349
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Ohiogirl. I'm not sure how the poor are getting cars. Maybe you should ask. All I know is that lots of people pick up their free food from the food pantry or check out of Walmart with their food from their SNAP cards and take it home in a car. Sorry, but if you can afford a car, I don't see why a person needs help with food. Cars are a luxury. When I went to college, I didn't have a car. I walked to class, walked to the store, walked to work. When I went to college in a large city, I walked or took the bus. And no it wasn't in Florida, it was in the middle of winter in Wisconsin.
Sounds like you are a healthy guy, with two good legs and feet that carried you where you wanted to go. Good for you.

Not everyone gets that blessing. Some don't have it to begin with. Some get it taken away from them when they're serving our country. Some loose it as they get old. Some become victims of diseases that affect their feet, their legs, their lungs, their heart. Their mind.

But if you feel better telling yourself that, by gum, you did it and what the heck is wrong with all those people who leech off the system you just keep on keepin' on. I have no problem with living in a society where we choose to help the guy who went to Afghanistan and came home with a shattered leg and a brain injury. I sure as heck am not standing in line shaking my finger at a mother who has three kids and is using a SNAP card. Jesus didn't make me psychic and my Bible tells me I'm not supposed to judge people.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,293 posts, read 5,501,816 times
Reputation: 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Balance is required so that resources are not wasted. We have this command for those not needy.

KJV 2 Thess 3: 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
Do you equally hold with the requirement of early Christians to practice communism?

KJV Acts 4:32-35

Quote:
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
You either believe ALL of the Bible, or if you believe and practice only some, then at least let it be the most charitable.

Would you prefer to see the 85%-90% STARVE in order to follow Paul's instruction in 2 Thess 3:10 to keep the 10-15% from cheating to eat? Which choice more accurately displays the love in your heart that Jesus displayed in His?

Read Mother Theresa's words again and tell us what portion of those stand opposed to the life Jesus wanted us to emulate.

“If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives: Be kind anyway.

If you are successful you will win some false friends and true enemies: Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank people will try to cheat you: Be honest anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight:Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous of you: Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten by tomorrow: Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough: Give your best anyway.”

“If you can't feed a hundred people, feed just one.”
Mother Teresa
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 3,745,732 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
If your area is anything like mine, you get all kinds of requests for food aid for the poor. Salvation Army, Food banks, churches, etc, seem to be constantly trying to raise money to purchase food for poor people. But frankly, I find this confusing. Our nation has a record number of people on food stamps. Schools offer free breakfast and lunch. I've heard they will even send home snacks for the rest of the day. Food banks freely offer food to many. In our area, the food bank supposedly serves 100,000 people a year, which is about 1/3 of the total population of this area. Meals on wheels offers free meals to seniors. Yet one of our nations biggest problems is obesity.

I will probably get blasted for this, but I don't give to these organizations, except Salvation army, who tries to get the homeless back on their feet. Doesn't the words of Paul apply anymore, If any shall not work, neither should he eat. Certainly we don't apply this to the elderly or handicapped or children, but it seems to me a lot of able bodied people may just be living off the hard work of others. I think the food thing is being way overdone and the evidence is the high rates of obesity.

Tell me where I'm wrong. I'm waiting for someone to straighten me out.
I certainly won't try to straighten you out. You're on the level all the way. I don't give to these organizations either. The Salvation Army doesn't vet who gets their money. One of my tenants once got money for rent from the Salvation Army. I'm positive that he drove to their office (why not sell your car if you are about to lose your home?), smelling like cigarettes as he always did (why not stop buying cigarettes if you can't afford rent?), and didn't tell them that he regularly used drugs as well. Yet they threw money at him. I complained about that to the local commanding officer and he essentially blew me off. No money in red kettles from my wallet, for sure.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:48 AM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,686,574 times
Reputation: 32349
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
I complained about that to the local commanding officer and he essentially blew me off. No money in red kettles from my wallet, for sure.
So you took it upon yourself, even though you had no idea of what his true circumstances were - just what your opinion of them were - to go down to the Salvation Army to complain that this person was getting money you didn't think he deserved?

Yikes.

I've used the services of the Salvation Army. After a major earthquake which damaged our house and took out the power. Nice house. Good area. We were the last people you'd expect to need the services of the Salvation Army. We were in a position to DONATE to them. They were there the same morning, while we were wandering around in our pj's shell-shocked that we'd watched our roof split into two pieces, helping us. As I recall they prayed with us.

I'm shocked to learn there are people telling the Salvation Army who to help and who not to help.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:31 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 3,745,732 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
So you took it upon yourself, even though you had no idea of what his true circumstances were - just what your opinion of them were - to go down to the Salvation Army to complain that this person was getting money you didn't think he deserved?

Yikes.

I've used the services of the Salvation Army. After a major earthquake which damaged our house and took out the power. Nice house. Good area. We were the last people you'd expect to need the services of the Salvation Army. We were in a position to DONATE to them. They were there the same morning, while we were wandering around in our pj's shell-shocked that we'd watched our roof split into two pieces, helping us. As I recall they prayed with us.

I'm shocked to learn there are people telling the Salvation Army who to help and who not to help.
Dude... I was the guy's landlord. I knew exactly what his situation was. I knew exactly what his true circumstances were. He spent hundreds of dollars on performance parts for his Mustang, and then couldn't pay the rent. He could always afford cigarettes because I always saw him smoking, but he couldn't pay the rent. When I agreed to rent to him, he had his girlfriend with him and she also worked. Shortly thereafter, she left him because she claimed he was a psycho and abusive. I'd believe it. At the very least, it left only one income-generator in that home. And also, this was the guy who stole approximately $200 worth of tools from me. He claimed he took them to a job site after I let him borrow them to do some work on his home... and then someone stole them from the job site. Horsefeathers. He pawned them off for drug money as anyone else in that scumhole of a town would have.

And I didn't complain to the Salvation Army after the guy got the money. I complained after I got contacted, I believe through the mail, by the Salvation Army.... in essence, reminding me that the Red Kettle campaign was about to start and begging me to contribute. I responded to that solicitation. I didn't go down to their office either... I e-mailed the commanding lieutenant of that particular office.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:35 PM
 
17,579 posts, read 10,651,760 times
Reputation: 8502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Do you equally hold with the requirement of early Christians to practice communism?

KJV Acts 4:32-35

You either believe ALL of the Bible, or if you believe and practice only some, then at least let it be the most charitable.

Would you prefer to see the 85%-90% STARVE in order to follow Paul's instruction in 2 Thess 3:10 to keep the 10-15% from cheating to eat? Which choice more accurately displays the love in your heart that Jesus displayed in His?

Read Mother Theresa's words again and tell us what portion of those stand opposed to the life Jesus wanted us to emulate.

“If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives: Be kind anyway.

If you are successful you will win some false friends and true enemies: Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank people will try to cheat you: Be honest anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight:Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous of you: Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten by tomorrow: Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough: Give your best anyway.”

“If you can't feed a hundred people, feed just one.”
Mother Teresa
Paul's' directive was a command. The sharing at the time mentioned was voluntary, not a command. Big difference.

I never said I want anyone hungry to remain such, but if the drive up in a Rolls Royce, they have the means to feed themselves and others. Would you want those who can feed themselves to deplete what is available so the truly needy go hungry?
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:49 PM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,686,574 times
Reputation: 32349
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
Dude... I was the guy's landlord. I knew exactly what his situation was. I knew exactly what his true circumstances were. He spent hundreds of dollars on performance parts for his Mustang, and then couldn't pay the rent. He could always afford cigarettes because I always saw him smoking, but he couldn't pay the rent.
"Jesus! Don't give that man any bread or fish. He smokes, I'm his landlord and I don't like how he manages his money. I'm telling you Jesus. Just stop. I know more about this situation than you do and being charitable to this guy bugs the heck out of me. What? You want ME to give you a fish to multiply? No, way! I earned my fish. Let all these people go out and earn their own! I'm pretty sure I saw one of these women use a SNAP card then get in an Escalade with really nice rims."
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,968 posts, read 22,141,102 times
Reputation: 10708
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Sounds like you are a healthy guy, with two good legs and feet that carried you where you wanted to go. Good for you.

Not everyone gets that blessing. Some don't have it to begin with. Some get it taken away from them when they're serving our country. Some loose it as they get old. Some become victims of diseases that affect their feet, their legs, their lungs, their heart. Their mind.

But if you feel better telling yourself that, by gum, you did it and what the heck is wrong with all those people who leech off the system you just keep on keepin' on. I have no problem with living in a society where we choose to help the guy who went to Afghanistan and came home with a shattered leg and a brain injury. I sure as heck am not standing in line shaking my finger at a mother who has three kids and is using a SNAP card. Jesus didn't make me psychic and my Bible tells me I'm not supposed to judge people.
Beautifully stated, Dew. Unfortunately, I couldn't rep you yet. Your thoughts on Jesus not making you psychic really hit home with me. So anyway, I'm going to do something I almost never do on this forum. I'm going to post from the Book of Mormon -- from one of my favorite parts. These few verses, from Mosiah 4:16-23, more or less sum up my feelings on this subject:

And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish. Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just -- But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.

For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind? And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.

And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another. And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done. I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
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