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Old 10-30-2013, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
You appear to be denying the imputation of Christís righteousness?
Now, you are going to earn a crown of righteousness?

Isnít this hypocritical, predicated on your theology?
Or should we get busy, working our way to a better deal in heaven?

"A rewards member, who imposes guilt trips through pride of ownership."
Every believer is credited with the righteousness of God the moment he places his faith in Christ Jesus (Romans 4:5).

The crown of righteousness has nothing to do with the imputed righteousness which belongs to every believer. And while we are not told the specific form of this crown or wreath, we are told the principle by which it is obtained.

The crown of righteousness is one of five different crowns mentioned in the Bible which are potentially awarded to believers. The crown of righteousness is a decoration which is awarded to those who as 2 Timothy 4:8 says,' have loved His appearing'. It is a reward for the believer's continued spiritual growth. Paul writes;
2 Tim. 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7] I have fought the good fight. I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8] In the future (at the judgment seat of Christ where believers will be evaluated for rewards [1 Cor. 3:14-15]) there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:10 PM
 
Location: New England
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Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ Matthew 25 ?

No one told these folk about a rewards program. Like Mystic says they just ARE. Love seeks no reward.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:13 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
misthos: wages, hire
Original Word: μισθός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: misthos
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-thos')
Short Definition: wages, reward
Definition: (a) pay, wages, salary, (b)reward, recompense, punishment.

My apologies to the mod(s) and forum member(s).
But it appears to me, that if you are going to utilize a word?
Then, it should encompass the entire meaning of that word?

Unless of course, we are selectively using it for our own purpose(s)?
Just a humble opinion, although I am not a big fan of Strong's.
The topic of this thread is specifically eternal rewards which are awarded to believers. You are not going to take this thread off topic.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:16 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ Matthew 25 ?

No one told these folk about a rewards program. Like Mystic says they just ARE. Love seeks no reward.
Scripture refutes any claim that God does not reward believers . . . as shown in the OP.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:49 PM
 
20,462 posts, read 9,873,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ Matthew 25 ?

No one told these folk about a rewards program. Like Mystic says they just ARE. Love seeks no reward.
Most who believe will not love his appearing, as the fruit of the Spirit does not come naturally?
In other words, you have to earn it by believing all the right things; lest you loose your ornament.

Last edited by Jerwade; 10-30-2013 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:11 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,021,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
On another one of my threads, a poster made the following comment. ''Our God is not a God of rewards and punishments of any kind . . . differing levels notwithstanding. Our Spirits have consequences based on what we sow . . . but they are neither rewards nor punishments GIVEN by God. They just ARE.'' Because of that statement I decided to start this thread and show that the Bible has quite a bit to say concerning the fact that the faithful believer will be rewarded for his faithfulness in serving God in this life. In both the Millennial kingdom and throughout the eternal future the believer will have rewards, rulership responsibilities, and privileges based upon faithful service in this life. I hope everyone will take the time to read this post.


The Bible quite clearly states that God does reward and that some will receive more rewards than others. Let's see what Jesus said.
Matthew 6:1 ''Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.''

Matthew 6:3 ''But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4] so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.''

Matthew 6:6 ''But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.''

Matthew 6:17 ''Whenever you fast, anoint your head and wash your face 18] so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Matthew 6:19 ''Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20] But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21] for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.''

Matthew 16:27 ''For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Revelation 22:12 ''Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rulership responsibilities in the Millennial kingdom and in eternity future are one of the rewards that the faithful believer will be given. Some will have greater rulership responsibilities than others. Jesus speaks of this in His parable of the ten minas. This parable illustrates that Jesus will reward the faithful according to their service to Him, and that His enemies (those who reject Him) will be judged before Him.
Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12] So He said, '' A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. 13] ''And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.' 14] ''But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.' 15] ''When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16] ''The first appeared, saying, 'Master, your mina has made ten minas more.' 17] ''And he said to him, ''Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.' 18] ''The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19] ''And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.' 20] ''Another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; 21] for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man, you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.' 22] ''He said to him, 'By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? 23] 'Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?' 24] ''Then he said to the bystanders, 'Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.' 25] 'And they said to him, 'Master, he has ten minas already.' 26] ''I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 27] ''But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.''
The faithful believer will receive his rewards at the judgment seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
The 'bad' refers not to sins, for all sin was judged at the Cross. The 'bad' refers to works which while humanly good, are works that were done in the energy of the flesh instead of under the power of the Holy Spirit and are therefore rejected by God as human good which is not acceptable to Him. Such works are referred to in 1 Corinthians 3:12 as 'wood, hay, and straw'.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 contrasts the believer's works which will be burned up, and the works for which he will receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12] Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13] each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14] If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
We as believers are urged to be careful not to miss out on a full reward.
2 John 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Revelation 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
There are five different crowns which a believer can potentially receive.
1) The crown of glory is for faithful undershepherds. 1 Peter 5:4

2) The crown of Rejoicing is for soul winners. 1 Thessalonians 2:19

3) The Incorruptible crown is awarded for living a disciplined life as outlined by the word of God for the believer. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

4) The crown of righteousness is for those who have loved his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:8

5) The crown of Life is for those who love the Lord and persevere under pressure. James 1:12; Revelation 2:10
For those who have crowns, how joyous it will be to cast them before the throne of the Lord.

While we should be motivated to serve the Lord out of love for Him, God does reward us for that faithful service. We should all desire to be able to say with Paul.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord , the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:7-8)
I can agree with some things you say but you always it seems speak of rewards in the future when Christ returns when in fact there so much rewards in the here and now. And regarding what you call rewards in the future, Jesus spoke of those rewards in the singular.
REV 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work." Again "work" is singular not plural because it is the one work of faith that does the many works. The reward is to see the fullness of "His Power and Great Glory" that will arrive "with Me" as He said if you have been faithful to the end; if you been faithful in investing the one mina or ten mina. Elsewise in Scripture where it says rewards according to works, it is talking about the some total as one work indicating you have been faithful to the end. The thief on the cross had no time to invest his faith but nevertheless went to Paradise to be instructed on how to rule and reign as a King and a Priest later. Paradise is no less a place for anyone but all eat of the Tree of Life there.

Now as concerning whether you will rule over one, five or ten cities it will be according to capacity not reward for being better then the next guy or having done more than the others but simply your ability produced by the same faith as another, rewarded the same, but with different capacity. I can not do what another does because I have not been called to that but if I am faithful to what I have than I am blessed equally. MT 20:12 "These last have wrought but one hour, and You have made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day." As with Paul so also with a child, an old woman or anyone else. All are and will be equal.

If you want to call that rewards then so be it and in a way it is but I doubt that anyone in heaven will be comparing what they do/did vs. another because like the Angles all will behold the Glory of Christ not even their own value nor ability. This reward concept is a feeble human concept much like the expression "servant" is because of the weakness of our carnal minds as Paul said. We are more like friends of God and more intimate than a servant. And yet to say reward/rewards is useful to convey spiritual things but also hindering if without the other contrasting Scripture to give us a better sense of things by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

Therefor the great reward is Christ Himself with "power and great glory" [Mt. 24:30] that all will receive in the end. That is what the parable of the vineyard is talking about; equal excess to that Glory. The parable of the minas/talents is simply about your capacity to do more. These two parables do not contradict but simply explain different things about spiritual life.

Regarding the crowns it is the one crown of His Glory spoken of in several ways. Again, you speak of the crown/crowns as only in the future but Christ speaks of it in the singular and we have it now and we are to hang on to it through faith in Him unto the end.

REV 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which you have, that no man take your crown." It is the crown of rejoicing, righteousness, and life in Him; now and forever.

Last edited by garya123; 10-30-2013 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:19 PM
 
22,009 posts, read 16,770,811 times
Reputation: 8785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
On another one of my threads, a poster made the following comment. ''Our God is not a God of rewards and punishments of any kind . . . differing levels notwithstanding. Our Spirits have consequences based on what we sow . . . but they are neither rewards nor punishments GIVEN by God. They just ARE.'' Because of that statement I decided to start this thread and show that the Bible has quite a bit to say concerning the fact that the faithful believer will be rewarded for his faithfulness in serving God in this life. In both the Millennial kingdom and throughout the eternal future the believer will have rewards, rulership responsibilities, and privileges based upon faithful service in this life. I hope everyone will take the time to read this post.


The Bible quite clearly states that God does reward and that some will receive more rewards than others. Let's see what Jesus said.
Matthew 6:1 ''Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.''

Matthew 6:3 ''But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4] so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.''

Matthew 6:6 ''But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.''

Matthew 6:17 ''Whenever you fast, anoint your head and wash your face 18] so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Matthew 6:19 ''Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20] But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21] for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.''

Matthew 16:27 ''For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.

Revelation 22:12 ''Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rulership responsibilities in the Millennial kingdom and in eternity future are one of the rewards that the faithful believer will be given. Some will have greater rulership responsibilities than others. Jesus speaks of this in His parable of the ten minas. This parable illustrates that Jesus will reward the faithful according to their service to Him, and that His enemies (those who reject Him) will be judged before Him.
Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12] So He said, '' A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. 13] ''And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.' 14] ''But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.' 15] ''When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16] ''The first appeared, saying, 'Master, your mina has made ten minas more.' 17] ''And he said to him, ''Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.' 18] ''The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.' 19] ''And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.' 20] ''Another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; 21] for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man, you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.' 22] ''He said to him, 'By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? 23] 'Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?' 24] ''Then he said to the bystanders, 'Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.' 25] 'And they said to him, 'Master, he has ten minas already.' 26] ''I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 27] ''But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.''
The faithful believer will receive his rewards at the judgment seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
The 'bad' refers not to sins, for all sin was judged at the Cross. The 'bad' refers to works which while humanly good, are works that were done in the energy of the flesh instead of under the power of the Holy Spirit and are therefore rejected by God as human good which is not acceptable to Him. Such works are referred to in 1 Corinthians 3:12 as 'wood, hay, and straw'.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 contrasts the believer's works which will be burned up, and the works for which he will receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12] Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13] each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14] If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
We as believers are urged to be careful not to miss out on a full reward.
2 John 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Revelation 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
There are five different crowns which a believer can potentially receive.
1) The crown of glory is for faithful undershepherds. 1 Peter 5:4

2) The crown of Rejoicing is for soul winners. 1 Thessalonians 2:19

3) The Incorruptible crown is awarded for living a disciplined life as outlined by the word of God for the believer. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

4) The crown of righteousness is for those who have loved his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:8

5) The crown of Life is for those who love the Lord and persevere under pressure. James 1:12; Revelation 2:10
For those who have crowns, how joyous it will be to cast them before the throne of the Lord.

While we should be motivated to serve the Lord out of love for Him, God does reward us for that faithful service. We should all desire to be able to say with Paul.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord , the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:7-8)
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I can agree with some things you say but you always it seems speak of rewards in the future when Christ returns when in fact there so much rewards in the here and now. And regarding what you call rewards in the future, Jesus spoke of those rewards in the singular.
REV 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work." Again "work" is singular not plural because it is the one work of faith that does the many works. The reward is to see the fullness of "His Power and Great Glory" that will arrive "with Me" as He said if you have been faithful to the end; if you been faithful in investing the one mina or ten mina. Elsewise in Scripture where it says rewards according to works, it is talking about the some total as one work indicating you have been faithful to the end. The thief on the cross had no time to invest his faith but nevertheless went to Paradise to be instructed on how to rule and reign as a King and a Priest later. Paradise is no less a place for anyone but all eat of the Tree of Life there.

Now as concerning whether you will rule over one, five or ten cities it will be according to capacity not reward for being better then the next guy or having done more than the others but simply your ability produced by the same faith as another, rewarded the same, but with different capacity. I can not do what another does because I have not been called to that but if I am faithful to what I have than I am blessed equally. MT 20:12 "These last have wrought but one hour, and You have made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day." As with Paul so also with a child, an old woman or anyone else. All are and will be equal.

If you want to call that rewards then so be it and in a way it is but I doubt that anyone in heaven will be comparing what they do/did vs. another because like the Angles all will behold the Glory of Christ not even their own value nor ability. This reward concept is a feeble human concept much like the expression "servant" is because of the weakness of our carnal minds as Paul said. We are more like friends of God and more intimate than a servant. And yet to say reward/rewards is useful to convey spiritual things but also hindering if without the other contrasting Scripture to give us a better sense of things by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

Therefor the great reward is Christ Himself with "power and great glory" [Mt. 24:30] that all will receive in the end. That is what the parable of the vineyard is talking about; equal excess to that Glory. The parable of the minas/talents is simply about your capacity to do more. These two parables do not contradict but simply explain different things about spiritual life.

Regarding the crowns it is the one crown of His Glory spoken of in several ways. Again, you speak of the crown/crowns as only in the future but Christ speaks of it in the singular and we have it now and we are to hang on to it through faith in Him unto the end.

REV 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which you have, that no man take your crown." It is the crown of rejoicing, righteousness, and life in Him; now and forever.
Hi Garya. Yes. I am referring to future eternal rewards. That's the topic. Therefore that's what I am talking about. And it is a subject to which the Bible gives more than passing attention.

I never said that it is a competition with other believers. I did say however that God rewards us for our faithful service to Him. The more faithful a believer is regarding his spiritual production, the greater his reward will be at the judgment seat of Christ. 2 Cor. 5:10 bears this out.
2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
The good deeds refer to the works of 'gold, silver and precious stones in 1 Cor. 3:12 (divine good), and the bad deeds refer to works of 'wood, hay, and stubble 1 Cor. 3:12 (human good).' The more spiritual production a believer has the more he will be rewarded. But this does not imply a competition with other believers.

And it is possible to lose or miss out on rewards. We are told to be careful not to miss out on a FULL reward.
2 John 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Revelation 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Being urged to be careful to not miss out on a full reward means that the believer can miss out on rewards that he otherwise could have had. And that means that there are degrees of reward for the believer in the Millennial kingdom and for all eternity future.

Since in the kingdom some will be first and some will be last, that means that there is no equality in the kingdom in respect to rulership responsibilities, privileges, and blessings.

You mentioned Matthew 20:12 regarding the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. I addressed that in post #4. It is not teaching equality of reward in the kingdom. The point of the parable is that some who are first now will be last in the kingdom, while some who are last now will be first in the kingdom. And that means inequality in the kingdom.

Now, when you said, ''If you want to call that rewards,'' I think you were referring to rulership responsibilities in the kingdom. Yes, that is a reward. And the parable of the ten minas relates that some will have greater responsibilities in the kingdom then others do.

Regarding the crowns, the fact that Jesus mentioned one crown no more means that there is only one crown then His speaking of reward in the singular means that there is only one reward. The different crowns represent different rewards and may also reflect varying stages of spiritual maturity. The NT writers were familiar with the several grades of wreaths or crowns which were Roman military decorations, such as the corona obsidionalis which was the highest order, the corona civica, the corona navalis, the corona muralis, the corona castrensis, and the corona triumphalis. And so the NT writers found it natural to illustrate surpassing grace rewards in eternity with the concept of crowns.

The fact that Revelation 19:8 describes the bride - the church being clothed in fine linen which is the righteous acts of the saints, and that this relates to the awards given at the judgment seat of Christ indicates that each believer's clothing will reflect his status in the kingdom. Some believers will 'shine' more brightly than others.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,771,928 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I can agree with some things you say but you always it seems speak of rewards in the future when Christ returns when in fact there so much rewards in the here and now. And regarding what you call rewards in the future, Jesus spoke of those rewards in the singular.
REV 22:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work." Again "work" is singular not plural because it is the one work of faith that does the many works. The reward is to see the fullness of "His Power and Great Glory" that will arrive "with Me" as He said if you have been faithful to the end; if you been faithful in investing the one mina or ten mina. Elsewise in Scripture where it says rewards according to works, it is talking about the some total as one work indicating you have been faithful to the end. The thief on the cross had no time to invest his faith but nevertheless went to Paradise to be instructed on how to rule and reign as a King and a Priest later. Paradise is no less a place for anyone but all eat of the Tree of Life there.

Now as concerning whether you will rule over one, five or ten cities it will be according to capacity not reward for being better then the next guy or having done more than the others but simply your ability produced by the same faith as another, rewarded the same, but with different capacity. I can not do what another does because I have not been called to that but if I am faithful to what I have than I am blessed equally. MT 20:12 "These last have wrought but one hour, and You have made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day." As with Paul so also with a child, an old woman or anyone else. All are and will be equal.

If you want to call that rewards then so be it and in a way it is but I doubt that anyone in heaven will be comparing what they do/did vs. another because like the Angles all will behold the Glory of Christ not even their own value nor ability. This reward concept is a feeble human concept much like the expression "servant" is because of the weakness of our carnal minds as Paul said. We are more like friends of God and more intimate than a servant. And yet to say reward/rewards is useful to convey spiritual things but also hindering if without the other contrasting Scripture to give us a better sense of things by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.

Therefor the great reward is Christ Himself with "power and great glory" [Mt. 24:30] that all will receive in the end. That is what the parable of the vineyard is talking about; equal excess to that Glory. The parable of the minas/talents is simply about your capacity to do more. These two parables do not contradict but simply explain different things about spiritual life.

Regarding the crowns it is the one crown of His Glory spoken of in several ways. Again, you speak of the crown/crowns as only in the future but Christ speaks of it in the singular and we have it now and we are to hang on to it through faith in Him unto the end.

REV 3:11 "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which you have, that no man take your crown." It is the crown of rejoicing, righteousness, and life in Him; now and forever.
Gary, I appreciate much of your post. But do you really think we are going to rule over cities and over others? I thought we were all going to that One City in heaven whose builder and maker is God. But I realize some people believe in a literal thousand year reign on earth... (I'm not of those in that camp). I think of death as the great equalizer when people will realize they are no better or worse than anyone else because we are all together one in Adam and to be made One in Christ. The looking down on other sinners will be done away with through death. No one will boast in God's presence. I do see a lot of desire to boast about one's standing with God in this world. That will be cut off through either enlightened humility or death.

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Old 10-30-2013, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Hi Garya. Yes. I am referring to future eternal rewards. That's the topic. Therefore that's what I am talking about. And it is a subject to which the Bible gives more than passing attention.

I never said that it is a competition with other believers. I did say however that God rewards us for our faithful service to Him. The more faithful a believer is regarding his spiritual production, the greater his reward will be at the judgment seat of Christ. 2 Cor. 5:10 bears this out.
2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
The good deeds refer to the works of 'gold, silver and precious stones in 1 Cor. 3:12 (divine good), and the bad deeds refer to works of 'wood, hay, and stubble 1 Cor. 3:12 (human good).' The more spiritual production a believer has the more he will be rewarded. But this does not imply a competition with other believers.

And it is possible to lose or miss out on rewards. We are told to be careful not to miss out on a FULL reward.
2 John 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Revelation 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Being urged to be careful to not miss out on a full reward means that the believer can miss out on rewards that he otherwise could have had. And that means that there are degrees of reward for the believer in the Millennial kingdom and for all eternity future.

Since in the kingdom some will be first and some will be last, that means that there is no equality in the kingdom in respect to rulership responsibilities, privileges, and blessings.

You mentioned Matthew 20:12 regarding the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. I addressed that in post #4. It is not teaching equality of reward in the kingdom. The point of the parable is that some who are first now will be last in the kingdom, while some who are last now will be first in the kingdom. And that means inequality in the kingdom.

Now, when you said, ''If you want to call that rewards,'' I think you were referring to rulership responsibilities in the kingdom. Yes, that is a reward. And the parable of the ten minas relates that some will have greater responsibilities in the kingdom then others do.

Regarding the crowns, the fact that Jesus mentioned one crown no more means that there is only one crown then His speaking of reward in the singular means that there is only one reward. The different crowns represent different rewards and may also reflect varying stages of spiritual maturity. The NT writers were familiar with the several grades of wreaths or crowns which were Roman military decorations, such as the corona obsidionalis which was the highest order, the corona civica, the corona navalis, the corona muralis, the corona castrensis, and the corona triumphalis. And so the NT writers found it natural to illustrate surpassing grace rewards in eternity with the concept of crowns.

The fact that Revelation 19:8 describes the bride - the church being clothed in fine linen which is the righteous acts of the saints, and that this relates to the awards given at the judgment seat of Christ indicates that each believer's clothing will reflect his status in the kingdom. Some believers will 'shine' more brightly than others.
To teach that we will not be the same in equality in the eternal realm makes zero sense. By this you are elevating certain individuals over others and Jesus never taught any such thing. Paul taught all kinds of strange things, however.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:32 PM
 
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To teach that we will not be the same in equality in the eternal realm makes zero sense. By this you are elevating certain individuals over others and Jesus never taught any such thing. Paul taught all kinds of strange things, however.
I am referring to differences in blessing, authority, rulership responsibilities, and privileges in the Millennial kingdom, and in eternity future.

It was Jesus who said in His parable that some would rule over ten cities while others would rule over five.

It was Jesus who said in Revelation 2:26 - 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to Him I will give authority over the nations; 27] and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to piece, as I also have received authority from My Father;

And it was Jesus who said that in the kingdom some would be first and some will be last. That does not speak of equality in terms of blessing, reward, and privilege.
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