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Old 10-31-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 3,898,221 times
Reputation: 2555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The problem is that If Satan exists; and if Satan is a fallen Angel; and if this fallen Angel was created by God--------then God has created EVIL. And this causes a monumental theological problem.


You cannot have God creating EVIL. That diminishes God big time and the folks on Earth have to explain why God was EVIL.

What to do? The theologians of that mythological era tried to explain EVIL by using the EVIL twin analogy.

God is in charge of everything that is GOOD.

And Satan is responsible for all EVIL.

And voilá case solved!


Not so fast Dude! In this scheme Satan still the creation of God.

We know one thing: There is EVIL in the world. Where does EVIL come from?

What is the definition of EVIL?

The most famous theologians define EVIL as simply the absence of GOOD.

How can we have EVIL and maintain God's reputation intact?
In the Old Testament, there is no good and evil. God is in full charge, and He uses angels or demons, depending, to carry out His will.

Good and evil is a much later invention. Can you say "Manichaeism" ? Can you say "Augustine" and the doctrine of dualism?
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:30 PM
 
9,766 posts, read 6,727,874 times
Reputation: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
In the Old Testament, there is no good and evil. God is in full charge, and He uses angels or demons, depending, to carry out His will.

Good and evil is a much later invention. Can you say "Manichaeism" ? Can you say "Augustine" and the doctrine of dualism?
Yes!!!!!!

Augustine a former follower of Manichaeism and later a full blown convert to Christianity realized the error of having to relate EVIL to GOD. I am amazed that a person in the 4th century realized this and that folks in the 21st century are still stucked.

I agree, the OT is a mess. I would clean it up big time and just leave the philosophical stuff and the beautiful psalms.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:15 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 649,059 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I guess in biblical times academics and knowledge were not well received.




I give you credit for finding a quote that despises knowledge and wisdom in favor of religious dogma.

You seem to forget that these men were solely into religion. They sound a lot like Muslims. I wish you luck with this anti-knowledge method.
The bible does not get old, God`s word stands for ever. If you think academics are wiser than God, you are really a fool. I prefer God`s wisdom. In two cases in my life I asked God for an advise and because I did not follow, I lost a total of 80 000 $.
Knowledge is a gift from God and wisdom we shall ask from God too. This is what in the end makes us wise. I am a realistic thinking person. Therefore I lost 80 000$. In the first case I asked people, I was a young believer and every one said contrary to God`s advise. In the second case I should know better, but the circumstances seemed better in my own eyes and no way I could know the future, but God did and His advise was better.
I do not know who you say these men are that sound like Muslims, but I am sure Newton for instance believed in the existence of Satan and he had more knowledge than you and I together. To say that people who believe in the bible are anti-knowledge is simply not true. Even great scientists believe in the bible.
I have enough revelations that agree with the word of God, that I can say Satan and his demons are real. You and your academics know not the spiritual things, it is foolishness in your eyes, therefore you do not know the truth.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:45 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 649,059 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Satan cannot touch me.


I am 100% feee, have no fear, no worries.


On the other hand you think Satan is lurking

Anyone that is in Christ, Satan cannot touch. But that does not mean he cannot deceive , lie or even murder us, when we are not alert. He has deceived Adam and Eve, who were in a better spiritual condition than we all. Who stands be careful that he does not fall. I know somebody who wanted to play football with the devil, he lost the game, he fell away from faith.
You are right, Satan works through fear, worry, doubt and unbelief etc. If you think you are
100 % free, you deceive yourself, I do not believe you. I have the gift of discernment, but I do not know if I am 100% free. I went through deliverance. God told me a whole page from what I had to be delivered, some I had inherited, it was just amazing. I did not know that before. The doctrine a Christian cannot have a demon is wrong, even they that speak in tongues have them. If you think you are free, watch your thoughts, the mind is the battle ground.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: california
5,655 posts, read 4,880,627 times
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There are a great many influencial people that are into satan worship ,even though they pretend in public to reverence God . I know for a fact that the devil is a real person and so are the deamons real ,FIRST HAND.It's not a game and they really don't care if you bleieve in them or not . They have an influence they enjoy in the ignorant , and so long as the ignorant insist on their ignorance it works just the same either way. People that play in drugs make them selves far more vulnerable ,but for the most part they are not concerned about some one that is determined to resist God , why rock the boat? Deamons will feed some what accurate information in order to slip in some lies along the way because trust has been established . Often men depend on academic information even bible trivia and believe them selves to be learned about God and miss the whole thing. God cannot be put in a box nor stuck in a book either for that matter. Foolish men attempt to get a handle on God, rather than letting God get a hande on them.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: New England
32,224 posts, read 21,104,768 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There are a great many influencial people that are into satan worship ,even though they pretend in public to reverence God . I know for a fact that the devil is a real person and so are the deamons real ,FIRST HAND.It's not a game and they really don't care if you bleieve in them or not . They have an influence they enjoy in the ignorant , and so long as the ignorant insist on their ignorance it works just the same either way. People that play in drugs make them selves far more vulnerable ,but for the most part they are not concerned about some one that is determined to resist God , why rock the boat? Deamons will feed some what accurate information in order to slip in some lies along the way because trust has been established . Often men depend on academic information even bible trivia and believe them selves to be learned about God and miss the whole thing. God cannot be put in a box nor stuck in a book either for that matter. Foolish men attempt to get a handle on God, rather than letting God get a handle on them.
The bolded i agree with, the rest no so much.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:26 AM
 
9,766 posts, read 6,727,874 times
Reputation: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
I do not know who you say these men are that sound like Muslims, but I am sure Newton for instance believed in the existence of Satan and he had more knowledge than you and I together. To say that people who believe in the bible are anti-knowledge is simply not true. Even great scientists believe in the bible.
I have enough revelations that agree with the word of God, that I can say Satan and his demons are real. You and your academics know not the spiritual things, it is foolishness in your eyes, therefore you do not know the truth.
Newton considered the priesthood, he believed in God. Can you quote where he said he also believed in Satan?.

That was another era and EVIL was explained with the concept of Satan. Now we know that EVIL is within us. It is the price we pay for free will.

I also understand that I cannot change a life long belief system. It would be impossible for you to stop believing in Satan. You will never know how free one feels knowing there is no Satan.

And lastly think! To believe in Satan is to denigrate the greatness of God.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:31 AM
 
9,766 posts, read 6,727,874 times
Reputation: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
There are a great many influencial people that are into satan worship ,even though they pretend in public to reverence God . I know for a fact that the devil is a real person and so are the deamons real ,FIRST HAND.
I cannot worship Satan because there is no Satan.


Can you describe Satan? What does he look like? What did Satan said to you? How could you say Satan is a person? How come i have never seen Satan? Could it be that my belief in God is greater that yours?


If God is with me why would I even consider the existence of Satan?
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:08 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,168,349 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The problem is that If Satan exists; and if Satan is a fallen Angel; and if this fallen Angel was created by God--------then God has created EVIL. And this causes a monumental theological problem.


You cannot have God creating EVIL. That diminishes God big time and the folks on Earth have to explain why God was EVIL.

What to do? The theologians of that mythological era tried to explain EVIL by using the EVIL twin analogy.

God is in charge of everything that is GOOD.

And Satan is responsible for all EVIL.

And voilá case solved!


Not so fast Dude! In this scheme Satan still the creation of God.

We know one thing: There is EVIL in the world. Where does EVIL come from?

What is the definition of EVIL?

The most famous theologians define EVIL as simply the absence of GOOD.

How can we have EVIL and maintain God's reputation intact?
The problem isn't theological otherwise the RCC wouldn't teach it ... would they
Does the Catholic Church believe in the devil? | Catholic Answers

Answer (part of answer from the Catholic Answers web site)

.... Based on the teaching and example of Jesus (Mt 4:1-11; 12:22-30; Mk 1:34; Lk 10:18; 22:31; Jn 8:44), the Catholic Church has always held that the devil is real, not a mythical personification of evil. The Fourth Lateran Council (1215), in its decree condemning the Manichaean dualism of the Catharists, taught that "the devil and the other evil spirits were created good in nature, but they became evil by their own actions."

In 1975 the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship issued a document called Christian Faith and Demonology. It explained the Church's teaching on the subject. This document quotes Pope Paul VI's teaching regarding the devil:
(read it for yourself)
More recently, Pope John Paul II, in his general audience of August 13, 1986, expounded at length on the fall of the angels and, in speaking on the origin of Satan, said,
(read it for yourself)
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:20 PM
 
20,380 posts, read 9,825,009 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Satan is in your mirror.
The rear view mirror.
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