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Old 10-30-2013, 06:35 PM
 
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Eternal is not a statement of time and because we have eternal life but also dwell in time, we are subject to trials and temptations; people can and do give up/fall away to just a carnal life without eternal life. Eternal life is abiding; the ever present tense of the word to "come to Me". God answers the slightest desire to abide no matter what you feel, and therefor made eternal life easy to have and within the reach of anyone, even the prodigal sons.

Many do not understand what eternal means in the context of time. It is a hard thing to grasp but do you think it in vain that the Scripture warns us over and over to endure until the end. Any preacher worth his salt will warn as Jesus, Paul, and all the Scriptures do. The promises are given to those who overcome. Overcoming is to those who fail even many times but get back up through faith, prayer, a cleansed conscience and renewed courage. Overcoming is a free gift of Grace. There is therefor no need to fear of losing out because He ever lives to make intercession for us but we must not grow callous because of sin.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,767,037 times
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No problem. Instead of wringing your hands - just cut them off.




Not the best photo - but I couldn't find a better one. I just find this whole thread completely joyless. Why all the hand-wringing? Where is the joy?
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:26 AM
Zur
 
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eternal salvation I found only 2 times in the bible. DRB Israel is saved with eternal salvation. Conditional or unconditional? Heb 5:9 Jesus is the author of eternal salvation, for those that obey Him. Conditional or unconditional?
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
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Just plain silly to suggest that a Christian cannot lose their faith and their salvation. The Bible repeats it again and again.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Heb 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Ro 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

And these are just 3 of the many that warn of this. See also John 15:1 and ff, and 1 Corin 10:1-13. He who has ears let him hear.

The OP makes a good point just coming at the issue from another point of view. His point is that while genuine Christians who actually have saving faith already have eternal life, Christians will face many temptations and tests from God. Some people fall away, as the parable of the sower makes clear. Therefore, when we die in faith, then finally we have overcome and then receive the crown of eternal life. Ezekiel 18 also makes the same point. It is as clear as it can be, for those who can read and are willing to learn.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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Romans 8:29-30 that, whom He foreknew,
He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed
to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn
among many brethren."
(30) Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also,
and whom He calls, these He justifies also;
now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also."

There is no doubt in God's mind that the end result of His choice of us is to be the glorification of us as well.

We of the uncircumcision cannot lose our salvation.

Those of the Circumcision believers can lose their salvation of not being in the glorious kingdom on earth in the future. But it doesn't mean they go to Christendumb's hell.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:08 AM
 
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I've struggled with understanding of this area in Scripture. One Scripture specifically puts the Fear of God in my heart.

Revelation 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Other passages...

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is a "book of life" in which no doubt the "elect"/"chosen" are written in.

Those that hold a Calvanist perspective believe that if you have received Christ and are "born again" than you WILL overcome as it is God that is perfecting His Work in you. The new nature brings about fruit. God's Works entirely to rest in. Those that fall back unto Perdition never received Jesus Christ and never believed. Those that entered the "rest" did so because of belief in Jesus Christ.

Those that hold an Arminian perspective believe that those that are "born again" and have received Jesus Christ CAN fall back into Perdition and "lose" their Salvation due to unfaithfulness. The problem with this is that the "seal" of God / those ordained unto eternal life becomes conditional upon a works righteousness. The Bible makes it clear that by Faith and not Works of the Law one will be Justified, or else Paul is the greatest false teacher that has ever walked this planet being massively deceived which I don't believe because he sacrificed his entire life for this message.


The "not blotting out his name out of the book of life" I believe is God communicating to us just as God "repenting" (changing His mind)? As the "book of life" is based upon God's sovereignty to chose knowing all things the concept of Him "taking out" one's name must be a way of God communicating to Man a concept, as He did in the OT with the concept of repenting (God didn't really "change His mind" as he knows the end from the beginning but was communicating to Man in a way we can comprehend the eternal God). This is just my understanding however.

It is clearly a warning TO THE CHURCH as to this is to the "Church" of Sardis.. Whether this church being the true "Body of Christ" or the "mixed multitude" "Church" as we see it is up for interpretation. I just know I better heed the warning.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:39 AM
 
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Mikelee, we, of the nations cannot be blotted out of the book of life. Why? We didn't do anything to earn our salvation and likewise, we can't do anything to lose it seeing we are saved by grace, not by works.

Now the Jewish believer under the circumcision calling MUST do certain things to maintain their salvation. It's all about correctly cutting scriptures.

P.S. John made a deal with the apostle Paul that he (John) would only be for the Circumcision and Paul for the nations (cf Galatians 2). Therefore it stands to reason that John wrote Revelation to the Jews and the warnings therein to the "churches" are to their "churches."
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Mikelee, we, of the nations cannot be blotted out of the book of life. Why? We didn't do anything to earn our salvation and likewise, we can't do anything to lose it seeing we are saved by grace, not by works.

Now the Jewish believer under the circumcision calling MUST do certain things to maintain their salvation. It's all about correctly cutting scriptures.

P.S. John made a deal with the apostle Paul that he (John) would only be for the Circumcision and Paul for the nations (cf Galatians 2). Therefore it stands to reason that John wrote Revelation to the Jews and the warnings therein to the "churches" are to their "churches."
Why did Paul go on his missionary journeys if all are saved?
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Why did Paul go on his missionary journeys if all are saved?

Hi Vizio, the problem with your question is you might have heard from some Universalists that "all are presently saved due to what Christ did." Proleptically, they are, but in real life, they aren't . . . yet.

This verse explains why Paul evangelized the nations even though he believed ultimately all will be saved:

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I am enduring all because of those who are chosen, that they also may be happening upon the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with glory eonian."
God uses the heralding of the evangel so that when the ones chosen by God to be believing, will believe.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:55 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,650,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Hi Vizio, the problem with your question is you might have heard from some Universalists that "all are presently saved due to what Christ did." Proleptically, they are, but in real life, they aren't . . . yet.

This verse explains why Paul evangelized the nations even though he believed ultimately all will be saved:

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I am enduring all because of those who are chosen, that they also may be happening upon the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with glory eonian."
God uses the heralding of the evangel so that when the ones chosen by God to be believing, will believe.
If God is going to save them all anyway...why should Paul worry?
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