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Old 10-31-2013, 12:17 PM
 
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If we are once saved always saved, why are these verse even in the bible? Remember the bible doesnt contradict itself.


Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Colossians 3:5-9
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,


Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


These verses are 100% proof that you cannot be saved and then turn and live these lifestyles and think you will go to heaven. A former Christian turned Atheist cant stand infront of God and say I believed in you one at one time and your son died for my sins, but I know longer believe in you, BUT since Once Saved Always Saved which way to the entrance of the kingdom.

O.S.A.S. is as silly as saying someone like a terrorist getting saved at the age of 18-21 and by 30 they are hundreds of people and die in their sins and think they are going to heaven because OSAS.

God demands holy behavior from his followers and if in your heart you are trying and slip up along the way but have a sincere heart to follow God, I truly believe God does just discipline his own children. But if you turn 100% the other way and walk away from God on your own free will, be warned that the scripture I listed shows where you will go when you die, if you die unrepentant of you new sinful lifestyle that goes against the will of God.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:20 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,618,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
If we are once saved always saved, why are these verse even in the bible? Remember the bible doesnt contradict itself.


Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Colossians 3:5-9
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,


Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


These verses are 100% proof that you cannot be saved and then turn and live these lifestyles and think you will go to heaven. A former Christian turned Atheist cant stand infront of God and say I believed in you one at one time and your son died for my sins, but I know longer believe in you, BUT since Once Saved Always Saved which way to the entrance of the kingdom.

O.S.A.S. is as silly as saying someone like a terrorist getting saved at the age of 18-21 and by 30 they are hundreds of people and die in their sins and think they are going to heaven because OSAS.

God demands holy behavior from his followers and if in your heart you are trying and slip up along the way but have a sincere heart to follow God, I truly believe God does just discipline his own children. But if you turn 100% the other way and walk away from God on your own free will, be warned that the scripture I listed shows where you will go when you die, if you die unrepentant of you new sinful lifestyle that goes against the will of God.
None of those verses say we can lose our salvation. They describe the unbeliever. An unbeliever does these things. A Christian has moved away from them. If you haven't...it's a good indication that you are not a Christian.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,091,303 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
If God is going to save them all anyway...why should Paul worry?
Because being saved has got nothing to do with heaven and hell. I wish universalists would make and stress this point. Salvation is being reconciled to the Father and being unwavering in faith and confidence in the knowledge of it, so that we can live(out of love) our lives how he intended, with the awareness and reality of God in our lives, having at our disposal all things that pertain to life and godliness and the knowledge that God is an ever present help in time of trouble(this life of futility and vanity). Paul didn't worry, he was inspired for all to know this.
As far as I am concerned, to believe in salvation from eternal hell to eternal heaven is a life of wandering around the wilderness, having to appease God.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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Nope. Sorry. I have a hard time believing Paul would travel around the region and endure what he did just so people could have their best life now.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,091,303 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Nope. Sorry. I have a hard time believing Paul would travel around the region and endure what he did just so people could have their best life now.
Best life now?, there is only one life......... 'Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is believing in me, HAS Life age-during.

There is no salvation from eternal hell, and no scripture to support it. Now you being a being bible believing Pastor should have no problem telling us why God chose not to tell Adam, Noah and Moses about eternal hell, because obviously he did( chose not to mention it)if like you believe there is a place of eternal hell.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:46 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,618,931 times
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Best life now?, there is only one life......... 'Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is believing in me, HAS Life age-during.

There is no salvation from eternal hell, and no scripture to support it. Now you being a being bible believing Pastor should have no problem telling us why God chose not to tell Adam, Noah and Moses about eternal hell, because obviously he did( chose not to mention it)if like you believe there is a place of eternal hell.
How do you know he DIDN'T TELL Adam, Noah and Moses about it?
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,757,671 times
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
eternal salvation I found only 2 times in the bible. DRB Israel is saved with eternal salvation. Conditional or unconditional? Heb 5:9 Jesus is the author of eternal salvation, for those that obey Him. Conditional or unconditional?
But you see there are thousands, perhaps millions of different views of what it means to obey Jesus.

However, God knows WHAT WILL BE. And what will be - will be.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,091,303 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
How do you know he DIDN'T TELL Adam, Noah and Moses about it?
Now this is not the answer you would expect from a 100% bible believer who will not believe anything unless it is in the bible.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
I've struggled with understanding of this area in Scripture. One Scripture specifically puts the Fear of God in my heart.

Revelation 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Those that hold an Arminian perspective believe that those that are "born again" and have received Jesus Christ CAN fall back into Perdition and "lose" their Salvation due to unfaithfulness. The problem with this is that the "seal" of God / those ordained unto eternal life becomes conditional upon a works righteousness. The Bible makes it clear that by Faith and not Works of the Law one will be Justified, or else Paul is the greatest false teacher that has ever walked this planet being massively deceived which I don't believe because he sacrificed his entire life for this message.


The "not blotting out his name out of the book of life" I believe is God communicating to us just as God "repenting" (changing His mind)? As the "book of life" is based upon God's sovereignty to chose knowing all things the concept of Him "taking out" one's name must be a way of God communicating to Man a concept, as He did in the OT with the concept of repenting (God didn't really "change His mind" as he knows the end from the beginning but was communicating to Man in a way we can comprehend the eternal God). This is just my understanding however.
The following has been my experience, that of others and backed up by Scripture.
Salvation means to be lifted out of the miry clay, to be set upon a rock and then have your ways established by God [so says the Psalms] so that more and more you do things by the Spirit. To be enabled so as to follow Christ in righteousness from one state of Glory even to greater states of Glory [beauty of Character/Righteous]. This is not based on feelings but nevertheless a sure presence of Christ will accompany you. He gives the measure of feeling His presence in different degrees and in different circumstances. And often times without feeling least we be distracted with what we need to be doing.

If later, one begins to refuse to walk uprightly for the pleasures of sin then chastisement will happen because you entered into Covenant with Him for Him to be your Father. Remember the prodigal son story. He left the Father's house to go sin, went broke and wallowed in the mire but then came to his senses of realizing he was wrong. And what Father does not at times chastise and rebuke/correct wrong behavior or even wrong thinking ["he came to his senses"]?

One may not realize all this chastisement and rebuke stuff at first but sooner or later you will and some chastisement is not pleasant but at other times with gentleness and always with love. If one refuses chastisement repeatedly, especially over the same issue [serious things], God's Spirit will not always strive with you, as it is written, and you will be cut off. Not always forever as the prodigal story demonstrates. Only God sees who and who will not repent. On less offensive issues, He does not always strive but He does not cut off either.

As concerning chastisement it is given out on an individual bases and only God know how to do it.
To whom much is given much is required is the measuring stick God uses. One may seem to have a lot spiritual uplifting but that does not always equate to understanding and following close. Following close takes lots time, mistakes/misunderstandings both with God and man and sometimes sin. There are lots of babes in Christ who depend on lots of feelings compared to the mature ones who also enjoy feelings of the Spirit but have also learned to just know/discern that God is always with them.

But least we lose hope or are troubled by talk of being cut off, no one is who seeks. So let's look at the great hope of salvation in the fact that God is like Father who chastens and rebukes/corrects least we be condemned with the world and He is very patient. He goes out of His way as the saying goes to secure us.

It is written,
LK 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
LK 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. He who didn't know his Lords will and did things worthy of a beating will be beaten with few strips." And how can we judge who knew and who did not know? Judge not, but always be ready to give a helping hand up with a kind word.

The works of God are not those works that are done by trying to live under the law but rather done by Faith in His righteousness; He working in you and then through you. It is not you working without Him because that is what it means to live by law and not faith in Christ. This is why the parable says to prepare. Prepare by prayer first Then there is study, waiting's, sometimes fasting and fellowships so as to help or encourage one another by word and deed.

Therefor the faith of Christ and His works are inseparable because faith is the substance of spiritual things such as love for God and neighbor. If there be no substance of spiritual things in and through you it means there is no true faith at work. The solution is always to ask/prepare and Grace shall be given to do the will of God.

Last edited by garya123; 10-31-2013 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:18 PM
 
4,406 posts, read 4,059,151 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
None of those verses say we can lose our salvation. They describe the unbeliever. An unbeliever does these things. A Christian has moved away from them. If you haven't...it's a good indication that you are not a Christian.
THere are many Christians who live a lifestyle of sexual immorality, drunkenness, liars, adultery, and homosexuality after they got saved. We cant say they are not Christians because they believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God and that he died on the cross for their sins, all qualifications to make you a Christian, but they are luke warm Christians that live a worldly lifestyle.
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