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Old 10-31-2013, 01:22 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,623,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
THere are many Christians who live a lifestyle of sexual immorality, drunkenness, liars, adultery, and homosexuality after they got saved. We cant say they are not Christians because they believe in God and that Jesus is the son of God and that he died on the cross for their sins, all qualifications to make you a Christian, but they are luke warm Christians that live a worldly lifestyle.
You are correct in that WE cannot say that a person is a Christian or not. We can make an educated guess, though. But a Christian is not someone that merely says a prayer and boom...they're saved. If you're a Christian, it will result in a change of lifestyle -- maybe not immediate, but sanctification will occur over time.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:47 PM
 
4,406 posts, read 4,061,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You are correct in that WE cannot say that a person is a Christian or not. We can make an educated guess, though. But a Christian is not someone that merely says a prayer and boom...they're saved. If you're a Christian, it will result in a change of lifestyle -- maybe not immediate, but sanctification will occur over time.
I am more referring to those who take the backslide route and never turn back. And I know many that have lived the perfect biblical way according to the bible and when their loved on cheated on them or they lost a significant other, they turned completely against God and was happy with their new way. I know for sure they were saved because I was around them and witness the way they lived for years and I know they were genuine, its just after a event happened that caused them hurt they said screw Christianity and screw God. I pray they turn they life back to God and not die in their new lifestyle though.

If all slip up and it is the holy spirit that brings us back to God, but for people that just turn their back 100% to God and never turn back, it makes no sense for God to say I know you wanted nothing to do with me anymore and dont believe in me, but here is eternal life anyways.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:50 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,623,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post

I am more referring to those who take the backslide route and never turn back. And I know many that have lived the perfect biblical way according to the bible and when their loved on cheated on them or they lost a significant other, they turned completely against God and was happy with their new way. I know for sure they were saved because I was around them and witness the way they lived for years and I know they were genuine, its just after a event happened that caused them hurt they said screw Christianity and screw God. I pray they turn they life back to God and not die in their new lifestyle though.

If all slip up and it is the holy spirit that brings us back to God, but for people that just turn their back 100% to God and never turn back, it makes no sense for God to say I know you wanted nothing to do with me anymore and dont believe in me, but here is eternal life anyways.
That question has been answered already in scripture. If a person claims Christ, then backslides....it means they never actually knew Christ.

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
If God is going to save them all anyway...why should Paul worry?
Worry about what?
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:39 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 12,930,466 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
That question has been answered already in scripture. If a person claims Christ, then backslides....it means they never actually knew Christ.

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Dear Vizio,
1 John 2:19 is not concerning christians of the nations. Remember John said he was only for the circumcision (Galatians 2).

In the Corinthian church there was the person having sex with his father's wife. Paul said to give such a one over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh that his spirit would be saved. In II Corinthians they took the boy back. He knew Christ obviously.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
That question has been answered already in scripture. If a person claims Christ, then backslides....it means they never actually knew Christ.

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
Everyone backslides at some point or time, even the best of Christians and many Pastors too. Look at Pastors that cheat on their spouse or get addicted to porn, to say they never knew Christ is to be completely unrealistic. Getting saved means you are redeemed , not perfect. We will still sin after we get saved, but committing a sin vs a living a lifestyle of sin are 2 big differences.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:04 PM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
That question has been answered already in scripture. If a person claims Christ, then backslides....it means they never actually knew Christ.

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
How far do you go to be considered a back slider to make a judgement that they actually knew Christ?, try telling Peter who denied Christ 3 times........... Did you hear the one where Jesus said "go tell the disciples AND PETER"?.

Belief in the God of appeasement will never allow you to judge righteously in respect to those who in a moment of backslidden madness deny that which they know to be real. The backslider needs calling back not told you were never of us.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:53 PM
 
20,360 posts, read 9,819,192 times
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
How far do you go to be considered a back slider to make a judgement that they actually knew Christ?, try telling Peter who denied Christ 3 times ...........
Did you hear the one where Jesus said "go tell the disciples AND PETER"?.

Belief in the God of appeasement will never allow you to judge righteously in respect to those who in a moment of backslidden madness deny that which they know to be real. The backslider needs calling back not told you were never of us.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pcamps again.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:57 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
But you see there are thousands, perhaps millions of different views of what it means to obey Jesus.

However, God knows WHAT WILL BE. And what will be - will be.
Shalom Heartsong!
Can we not find an answer in the bible? You see, the bible is the only book God revealed His will to us. But to understand His word we need also His Holy Spirit. Both go together. If I do not understand, I study His word, if I do not get an answer there, it happened once that I awoke and just had the answer, which was conformed later by two witnesses. I also fasted and prayed for a week reading and studying the word to get an answer. I believed in OSAS, a false doctrine, that would bring me into hell, because if all sins are already forgiven, than why is there a need to confess and repent? It is also a security, that a true Christian has, that obeys Christ, but every one has the free will to walk away or live a sinful lifestyle. Out of ignorance I lived as a born again believer a sinful life and if I would not have confessed and repented, I would be lost. It is God`s grace that brings a proud, ignorant and unrepentant believer to his knees. But God gave me 3 events, telling me I am not saved, before I woke up. I understand how difficult it is to chance doctrine we believe in.
To believe on Christ is to trust Him and follow Him, if we really love Him, by His grace He will save us. Jesus has promised us that He is with us till the end of the world. That makes the difference, Christ in us, the hope of glory. To obey is to observe all things, He has commanded us (Mat 28:20).
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:43 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,058,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Shalom Heartsong!
Can we not find an answer in the bible? You see, the bible is the only book God revealed His will to us. But to understand His word we need also His Holy Spirit. Both go together. If I do not understand, I study His word, if I do not get an answer there, it happened once that I awoke and just had the answer, which was conformed later by two witnesses. I also fasted and prayed for a week reading and studying the word to get an answer. I believed in OSAS, a false doctrine, that would bring me into hell, because if all sins are already forgiven, than why is there a need to confess and repent? It is also a security, that a true Christian has, that obeys Christ, but every one has the free will to walk away or live a sinful lifestyle. Out of ignorance I lived as a born again believer a sinful life and if I would not have confessed and repented, I would be lost. It is God`s grace that brings a proud, ignorant and unrepentant believer to his knees. But God gave me 3 events, telling me I am not saved, before I woke up. I understand how difficult it is to chance doctrine we believe in.
To believe on Christ is to trust Him and follow Him, if we really love Him, by His grace He will save us. Jesus has promised us that He is with us till the end of the world. That makes the difference, Christ in us, the hope of glory. To obey is to observe all things, He has commanded us (Mat 28:20).
Excellent post. In my opinion OSAS is a doctrine that Satan is very pleased with, since many who make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior, do not make a commitment to Obey Him.
Peter said in Acts 5:32 that God gives the Holy Ghost as a gift to those who obey him. It is impossible for us truly to obey Him, unless we have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost to guide and direct our ways., Christ promised to give the Holy Spirit to those who are truly dedicated to laying down their own will to do the will of God. But a person can receive the Holy Spirit and still fall away. As Jesus said in the parable of the sower in Luke8:[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
See also Heb. 10:[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth [which comes truly only with the Holy Spirit] there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
As Christ said in John 10:[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. No man can pluck them out of the hands of our Savior or of His Father, but if we sin willfully and premeditately, of our own free will, there is no more sacrifice for our sins.

You may be interestedin my comments along this line in a thread I recently started on Are denominations in keeping with god’s will? Part II


Last edited by Robert M Prince; 11-01-2013 at 07:10 AM..
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