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Old 10-30-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,765,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;



Just what do you think your Jesus will judge you on? by what standard? Do you deny that he will judge you?
Do you get a free pass? are you someone special?

It's a serious question, what makes you different than the common heathen?
God has already judged the world.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,765,251 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
I don't bother with the pettiness of men and their controversies.


One is called to repentance, one is called to be righteous, one must be deemed righteous before the Father.



Jesus ain't your umbrella holder.
I've never heard that metaphor before. I'd be more inclined to think of Jesus as my UMBRELLA, not the holder.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:47 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I've never heard that metaphor before. I'd be more inclined to think of Jesus as my UMBRELLA, not the holder.


Most everyone here believes that Jesus' shed blood covers their sins, grace, like and umbrella. You folks have an umbrella for everything. Oh no, you don't have to repent, you don't have to recognize your sins, no legalism of any kind, no commandments, no ordinances, notta.
I'll just grab an umbrella.


You're going to be terribly disappointed.
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Old 10-31-2013, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,818 posts, read 7,722,693 times
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Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Deuteronomy text says it all. If someone dies without faith in Christ, then they will be punished for their own sins. They will not be able to blame their parents, claim the inexperience of youth or anything else to get out of their punishment.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:46 PM
 
20,433 posts, read 9,845,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Deuteronomy text says it all. If someone dies without faith in Christ, then they will be punished for their own sins. They will not be able to blame their parents, claim the inexperience of youth or anything else to get out of their punishment.
In other words, there is a religious card that says, "you are no longer responsible for your own thoughts, deeds and actions?"
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,178,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Deuteronomy text says it all. If someone dies without faith in Christ, then they will be punished for their own sins. They will not be able to blame their parents, claim the inexperience of youth or anything else to get out of their punishment.



nor will they be able to claim
  • "well I was one of those who never heard ... so be fair God"
nor will they be able to claim
  • "well, I once believed and despite me not remaining faithful to the very end, I still get to come into heaven anyway"
nor will they be able to claim
  • "so I preached a different gospel message, so what does it matter what I believe"
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:47 PM
 
20,433 posts, read 9,845,914 times
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Scapegoatism – is the act or practice of assigning blame and failure to another, as to deflect attention or responsibility away from oneself.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:42 PM
 
670 posts, read 669,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla Martin View Post
Most agree a person should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

Is sin transference (scapegoating) correct today?
I like questions like this,
though I am sure most other Christians are going to rant about the blood of the lamb, the Crucifixion and how you need to take communion and believe what they believe to go to heaven, rather than addressing your question.

First I'll offer my feelings on the matter, In today's society it is wrong to push blame unto another, a guilty person should pay for their crimes and another person should not be forced to suffer in the guilty parties place, though some try to frame others, and in Politics they use this Scapegoat method of lies to protect themselves while making their opponents appear awful. A different type of Scapegoating but evil none the less. Back then it was not ok either. It is different when Money is involved if the crime warrants a fine which is payable we allow people to bailout others who can't afford it, but I disagree with that system I don't think bailouts should exists, criminals should have to sit in their cell, because rich persons can get away with almost any thing, but that is getting into a different topic.

Now I will give some Scriptural support for my rejection of the "Blood of the Lamb" doctrine.

"No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them." - Psalm 49:7
"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." - Hosea 6:6

Now while I reject the validity of blood sacrifice as a means of atonement, I do however believe Jesus is the Messiah and I attempt to follow his teachings, so while some may attempt to brand me as a non-Christian, I am in fact a Christian.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,293 posts, read 7,669,209 times
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Jesus is not our scapegoat and the idea of scapegoat is a travesty on the idea of justice. Jesus changed the basis for judgement from the law of sin and death to the condition of the heart. That's not a free ticket to do harm to others or self, but a way of living in community and reestablishing community when it is violated. Repentance and forgiveness is the basis of that reestablishment.
The biggest problem is the primitive notion that justice requires punishment. It does not. It requires a change of heart in the violator and reparation as far as possible. It requires recognition of that change by the victim(s) and forgiveness. (a very important word)
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:49 AM
 
Location: New England
32,260 posts, read 21,131,193 times
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Scapegoating blood sacrifices are for those who desire to be outwardly clean. Faith in the knowledge of the width,depth, height and length of the God that he's always had for us that Jesus Christ left us in no doubt of by dying to prove it, cleanses our consciences to boldly approach the throne of grace and live effectively in this world in the knowledge that God is ever present with us, always hears us and always meets us.

It was always about love not blood.
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