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Old 10-30-2013, 01:18 PM
 
535 posts, read 795,508 times
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The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines scapegoat as, 2. a: One who bears the blame for others.
Transference is defined as: the act of moving something from one place to another.

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

In New Jersey, the parents of murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale, killed by two16 and 17 year old boys are calling on lawmakers to look into a law that would hold the parents of juvenile offenders accountable for the actions of their children.

In 1996, a St. Clair Shores, MI family was fined for allowing their 16 year old son to continue delinquent behavior. The ordinance requires that parents ’exercise reasonable control over their children."

Following the cyber bullying that led to the suicide of Rebecca Sedwick in Florida, attorney Mark O’Mara is drafting legislation that will hold parents responsible in instances of "willful blindness or gross negligence."

In Christianity one of the most profound instances of the transference of sin is found in Matthew 27:20-27 when Pilate asks those present if they want the innocent Jesus or the guilty Barabbas put to death. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Most agree a person should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

Is sin transference (scapegoating) correct today?
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:51 PM
 
8,100 posts, read 7,067,151 times
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Some of these parental law were parents are responsible to the illegal activities of their teen age kids , may be right if the parents have control of their lives , which is usually not the case as Child laws prevent parents from controlling their kids , as these are more liberal laws which can be perplexed if you live it as society can corrupts your kids .............. I could see if an animal pet were to bite someone then people with pets could be liable ............... Then with the so called Scapegoat in Christianity were Jesus is the very last Scapegoat for the remission of sin, which when people who are Christians or converts to Christianity can turn to Jesus and repent and be redeemed of sin which Jesus Spirit can rip out the sin and brake the curses which hold believers to Jesus , and people can be free indeed ................... People who go out and kill a goat for the redemption of sin would blaspheme God , as Jesus said `no one can go to the Father God but through me ` , as Jesus is the last scapegoat ,as His redemption comes through His judgment for those who have repented and faith in this gift is part of Jesus Spirit judgment for redemption ...
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,890,246 times
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The whole point of Calvary was to atone for man's sin (transference).

The new covenant changed this:

Quote:
He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on
the children to the third and the fourth generations. (Numbers 14:18)
To this:

Quote:

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their
iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 8:12)
This is of course the difference between law and grace. It's a shame we don't understand it so we can live in it.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:31 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,621,024 times
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Jesus IS our scapegoat. No man can pay for another's sin--as none of us are blameless, as is required. The only sin we can pay for is our own.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:04 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,294 times
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First you have to understand what righteousness is before you can be found righteous.

Grace is knowledge and wisdom, Grace is not your scapegoat.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:08 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,294 times
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Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?
It is true that there are numerous Bible verses that speak of the promise of salvation, with no mention of repentance. These merely say to "believe" on Jesus Christ and you shall be saved (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). However, the Bible makes it clear that God is holy and man is sinful, and that sin makes a separation between the two (Isaiah 59:1,2). Without repentance from sin, wicked men cannot have fellowship with a holy God. We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) and until we forsake them through repentance, we cannot be made alive in Christ.
The Scriptures speak of "repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18). We turn from sin to the Savior. This is why Paul preached "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). The first public word Jesus preached was "repent" (Matthew 4:17). John the Baptist began his ministry the same way (Matthew 3:2). Jesus told His hearers that without repentance, they would perish (Luke 13:3).
If belief is all that is necessary for salvation, then the logical conclusion is that one need never repent. However, the Bible tells us that a false convert "believes" and yet is not saved (Luke 8:13); he remains a "worker of iniquity." Look at the warning of Scripture: "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:6). The Scriptures also say, "He that covers his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesses and forsakes them [repentance] shall have mercy" (Proverbs 28:13). Jesus said that there was joy in heaven over one sinner who "repents" (Luke 15:10). If there is no repentance, there is no joy because there is no salvation.
When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost, he commanded his hearers to repent "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). Without repentance, there is no remission of sins; we are still under His wrath. Peter further said, "Repent . . . and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19). We cannot be "converted" unless we repent. God Himself "commands all men everywhere [leaving no exceptions] to repent" (Acts 17:30). Peter said a similar thing at Pentecost: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" (Acts 2:38).
If repentance wasn’t necessary for salvation, why then did Jesus command that repentance be preached to all nations (Luke 24:47)? With so many Scriptures speaking of the necessity of repentance for salvation, one can only suspect that those who preach salvation without repentance are strangers to repentance themselves, and thus strangers to true conversion.


The Evidence Bible
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:01 PM
 
535 posts, read 795,508 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?
It is true that there are numerous Bible verses that speak of the promise of salvation, with no mention of repentance. These merely say to "believe" on Jesus Christ and you shall be saved (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). However, the Bible makes it clear that God is holy and man is sinful, and that sin makes a separation between the two (Isaiah 59:1,2). Without repentance from sin, wicked men cannot have fellowship with a holy God. We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) and until we forsake them through repentance, we cannot be made alive in Christ.
The Scriptures speak of "repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18). We turn from sin to the Savior. This is why Paul preached "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). The first public word Jesus preached was "repent" (Matthew 4:17). John the Baptist began his ministry the same way (Matthew 3:2). Jesus told His hearers that without repentance, they would perish (Luke 13:3).
If belief is all that is necessary for salvation, then the logical conclusion is that one need never repent. However, the Bible tells us that a false convert "believes" and yet is not saved (Luke 8:13); he remains a "worker of iniquity." Look at the warning of Scripture: "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:6). The Scriptures also say, "He that covers his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesses and forsakes them [repentance] shall have mercy" (Proverbs 28:13). Jesus said that there was joy in heaven over one sinner who "repents" (Luke 15:10). If there is no repentance, there is no joy because there is no salvation.
When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost, he commanded his hearers to repent "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). Without repentance, there is no remission of sins; we are still under His wrath. Peter further said, "Repent . . . and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19). We cannot be "converted" unless we repent. God Himself "commands all men everywhere [leaving no exceptions] to repent" (Acts 17:30). Peter said a similar thing at Pentecost: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" (Acts 2:38).
If repentance wasn’t necessary for salvation, why then did Jesus command that repentance be preached to all nations (Luke 24:47)? With so many Scriptures speaking of the necessity of repentance for salvation, one can only suspect that those who preach salvation without repentance are strangers to repentance themselves, and thus strangers to true conversion.


The Evidence Bible
Sounds like the old Lordship Salvation.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:14 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla Martin View Post
Sounds like the old Lordship Salvation.

I don't bother with the pettiness of men and their controversies.


One is called to repentance, one is called to be righteous, one must be deemed righteous before the Father.



Jesus ain't your umbrella holder.

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Old 10-30-2013, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,758,355 times
Reputation: 1590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla Martin View Post
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines scapegoat as, 2. a: One who bears the blame for others.
Transference is defined as: the act of moving something from one place to another.

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

In New Jersey, the parents of murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale, killed by two16 and 17 year old boys are calling on lawmakers to look into a law that would hold the parents of juvenile offenders accountable for the actions of their children.

In 1996, a St. Clair Shores, MI family was fined for allowing their 16 year old son to continue delinquent behavior. The ordinance requires that parents ’exercise reasonable control over their children."

Following the cyber bullying that led to the suicide of Rebecca Sedwick in Florida, attorney Mark O’Mara is drafting legislation that will hold parents responsible in instances of "willful blindness or gross negligence."

In Christianity one of the most profound instances of the transference of sin is found in Matthew 27:20-27 when Pilate asks those present if they want the innocent Jesus or the guilty Barabbas put to death. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Most agree a person should be held responsible for the crimes they commit.

Is sin transference (scapegoating) correct today?
That's a good and a tough question. And I don't have an immediate answer - however, as a parent, I would rather take the death penalty than see it put upon my child.

What stood out to me in your post was how the people said, "Let his blood be upon us and upon our children.." And then I thought about how people often talk about being covered with the blood of Jesus but may not really know what they actually mean by that. So your question leads me to the question: "What does it mean to be covered by the blood of Christ"? To me, it means Christ died for all because all were under the penalty of death. It was/is a done deal and we can add nothing to it. Even knowing about it and believing in it doesn't add anything to it -- it just changes our perspective of what God has done in Christ on our behalf. Those who do not know about it are not condemned because Christ died for all.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:21 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,294 times
Reputation: 31
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;



Just what do you think your Jesus will judge you on? by what standard? Do you deny that he will judge you?
Do you get a free pass? are you someone special?

It's a serious question, what makes you different than the common heathen?
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