U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-06-2013, 09:52 AM
 
9,902 posts, read 6,767,328 times
Reputation: 2488

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
I don't know much about Mormonism, so correct me if I'm wrong. I myself am Native American. From what I've read my ancestors originated from a lost tribe from Israel which were headed by Lehi who sailed to America. Once in America, Lehi's kids split up and some became the white skinned, nice guy Nephites and some became the brown skinned, not so nice, Lamanites.

Now, this is where my research goes awry. One source says the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians. Another says the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the American Indians. I've also read the Lamanite descendants were and are in Central America all along and not North and South America after all. Do you know which is true?
DNA analysis shows that Native Americans and Asian people have a common origin. Have you noted how some Native Americans or indigenous South Americans look Asian? They came here when Alaska was connected to Asia by land.

Quote:
Beringia is a loosely defined region surrounding the Bering Strait, the Chukchi Sea, and the Bering Sea. It includes parts of Chukotka and Kamchatka in Russia as well as Alaska in the United States. In historical contexts it also includes the Bering land bridge, an ancient land bridge roughly 1,000 miles (1,600 km) wide (north to south) at its greatest extent, which connected Asia with North America at various times during the Pleistocene ice ages.
Wiki
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-06-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,110,679 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
DNA analysis shows that Native Americans and Asian people have a common origin. Have you noted how some Native Americans or indigenous South Americans look Asian? They came here when Alaska was connected to Asia by land.


Wiki
That is no surprise at all. The Inuit who used the called Eskimos, are indigenous to Greenland Canada Alaska and northern Siberia, and have been the last immigrants that came over. It is suspected they have been in North America no longer than four thousand years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,188,818 times
Reputation: 10733
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
I don't know much about Mormonism, so correct me if I'm wrong. I myself am Native American. From what I've read my ancestors originated from a lost tribe from Israel which were headed by Lehi who sailed to America. Once in America, Lehi's kids split up and some became the white skinned, nice guy Nephites and some became the brown skinned, not so nice, Lamanites.
Well, for starters, it wasn't anywhere close to an entire "lost tribe." It was two to three dozen (probably closer to two) individuals from two families (plus one single unrelated male). We believe they were Israelites, descendants of Joseph who was sold into Egypt.

Quote:
Now, this is where my research goes awry. One source says the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians. Another says the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the American Indians.
They were definitely not the principal ancestors of the American Indians. We believe them to have been among a number of different ancestors of some American Indians.

Quote:
I've also read the Lamanite descendants were and are in Central America all along and not North and South America after all. Do you know which is true?
The Book of Mormon doesn't state where the events described in it took place. We believe it was somewhere in the Western Hemisphere, but that's about all we really know from what the book itself says. Most LDS scholars today are of the opinion that much of the book takes place in either Central America or Mexico, but this is essentially just speculation based on a variety of things (such as descriptions of the topography in the book) etc. Also, the main events in the book took place over a period of about 1000 years, so there would undoubtedly have been a certain amount of movement from place to place during that extensive a period of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 03:12 PM
 
40,220 posts, read 26,833,383 times
Reputation: 6060
Default A question specifically to Mormons

The perpetuation of scientifically unsupported and refuted nonsense in defense of a specific belief system surrounding Christ seems to be the hallmark of most Christian denominations today. This places Mormonism firmly in the Christian camp . . . only the specifics differ. This is largely the result of a psychological rigidity built in to the indoctrination of religious faith. Perhaps the fear is that if the dogma upon which faith in Christ was established could be shown to be false . . . faith in Christ would evaporate. If the anti-scientific nonsense is indeed the only reason for faith in Christ . . . then the fear might be justified. But what kind of faith would that have been, really? Once one truly embraces at an inner level the "mind of Christ" and all He embodies . . . nothing is likely to alter that. The specifics of the beliefs surrounding Christ become largely irrelevant. I am frankly dismayed by the intransigence of religious dogma and the willingness to discard genuine science in favor of it . . . Moderator cut: delete

Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-06-2013 at 09:41 PM.. Reason: direct insult on their religion founder
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 04:59 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 6,767,328 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The perpetuation of scientifically unsupported and refuted nonsense in defense of a specific belief system surrounding Christ seems to be the hallmark of most Christian denominations today. This places Mormonism firmly in the Christian camp . . . only the specifics differ. This is largely the result of a psychological rigidity built in to the indoctrination of religious faith. Perhaps the fear is that if the dogma upon which faith in Christ was established could be shown to be false . . . faith in Christ would evaporate. If the anti-scientific nonsense is indeed the only reason for faith in Christ . . . then the fear might be justified. But what kind of faith would that have been, really? Once one truly embraces at an inner level the "mind of Christ" and all He embodies . . . nothing is likely to alter that. The specifics of the beliefs surrounding Christ become largely irrelevant. I am frankly dismayed by the intransigence of religious dogma and the willingness to discard genuine science in favor of it . . Moderator cut: orphaned.
A lot of folks need religion regardless of God.

Some need a lot of mythology to have a belief in God, particularly the folks in the OT. This custom continues in the 21st century. These folks are stuck in the BC era.

Some see any science as a threat because the basis of some religion is to to explain events that are difficult to comprehend. HOwever, science can lead to God.

Some folks FAIL to understand allegory and have a literal (only) understanding of the bible.

Some folks want the Bible to be infallible and the ONLY source of Christianity.

Mormons are no different. I am not certain it is necessarily a bad thing as one can accept the particulars of religion as rituals that enhance the human condition. Within this context the rituals or beliefs are moot.

And then there is Satan. Many need Satan to be able to believe in God.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-06-2013 at 09:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
 
400 posts, read 453,396 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
DNA analysis shows that Native Americans and Asian people have a common origin. Have you noted how some Native Americans or indigenous South Americans look Asian? They came here when Alaska was connected to Asia by land.
That's interesting. Several months ago I was diagnosed with AS, ankylosing spondylitis. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's a type of inflammatory arthritis that causes my spine to fuse together. I had a ten hour surgery on my spine.

Long story short, they did a DNA test to determine my genetic markers as part of my long term treatment. My DNA came back as northern European.

The cool part is based on my genetic profile the doctors have tailored my medicine regimen to be more effective. At least that's what they tell me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 07:24 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 6,767,328 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
That's interesting. Several months ago I was diagnosed with AS, ankylosing spondylitis. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It's a type of inflammatory arthritis that causes my spine to fuse together. I had a ten hour surgery on my spine.

Long story short, they did a DNA test to determine my genetic markers as part of my long term treatment. My DNA came back as northern European.

The cool part is based on my genetic profile the doctors have tailored my medicine regimen to be more effective. At least that's what they tell me.
You said you were native American in your post. What gives?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 08:56 PM
 
400 posts, read 453,396 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
You said you were native American in your post. What gives?
Good question. I am Native American. My DNA Haplogroup matches Northern European and some other European group that escapes me. When my wife gets home I'll have her get the DNA report. It's filed and I can't get on my knees and get it because of my back. I am no geneticist but I guess somewhere along the line some northern Europeans came over here. Surprisingly, before all this, I was reading that many Plains Indians, Cherokee in particular, match Greek DNA. I tried going on the Genealogy forum but those folks are so far over my head I couldn't make heads or tails of them.

All I can figure is a bunch of different people found their way over here, impregnated the women folk, then split. Or, maybe some stayed.

I find the whole thing interesting. One of my genes indicates that I get rid of things quickly out of my body. So, the specialists adjusted my medicines to include more long acting formulations.

We're probably at the tip of the iceberg of where all this will lead us. I'm still back on when a man's DNA and a woman's DNA blend, or whatever they call it, an entirely new DNA is created. If that isn't God's hand I don't know what is.

Here are some interesting quotes:
"This new realm of molecular genetics (is) where we see the most compelling evidence of design on the Earth" -Dean Kenyon, biologist and former Darwinist.

DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," -Antony Flew, atheist professor.

"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century" -Michael Denton, agnostic scientist.

Psalm 139: 13-15 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2013, 09:24 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 6,767,328 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Good question. I am Native American. My DNA Haplogroup matches Northern European and some other European group that escapes me. When my wife gets home I'll have her get the DNA report. It's filed and I can't get on my knees and get it because of my back. I am no geneticist but I guess somewhere along the line some northern Europeans came over here. Surprisingly, before all this, I was reading that many Plains Indians, Cherokee in particular, match Greek DNA. I tried going on the Genealogy forum but those folks are so far over my head I couldn't make heads or tails of them.

All I can figure is a bunch of different people found their way over here, impregnated the women folk, then split. Or, maybe some stayed.

I find the whole thing interesting. One of my genes indicates that I get rid of things quickly out of my body. So, the specialists adjusted my medicines to include more long acting formulations.

We're probably at the tip of the iceberg of where all this will lead us. I'm still back on when a man's DNA and a woman's DNA blend, or whatever they call it, an entirely new DNA is created. If that isn't God's hand I don't know what is.

Here are some interesting quotes:
"This new realm of molecular genetics (is) where we see the most compelling evidence of design on the Earth" -Dean Kenyon, biologist and former Darwinist.

DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," -Antony Flew, atheist professor.

"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century" -Michael Denton, agnostic scientist.

Psalm 139: 13-15 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
All humans have a common ancestor. A black women in Africa. So it is not surprising that humans share a lot of genes.

As for your DNA analysis. Many people in America are Heinz 57. So you are correct, there are Europeans in your blood line despite the designation you gave yourself. Lets look at it this way:

one generation above = 2 people gave you genes
two =4 gave you genes
three = 8
four = 16
5 = 32
6 = 64
7 = 128
8 = 256

Eight generations is less than 200 years and we have been around for a long time. Before you know it, you are related to everybody in the place or country where you grew up. Add to that a bit of traveling and the mingling of genes is astronomical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2013, 09:14 AM
 
400 posts, read 453,396 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
All humans have a common ancestor. A black women in Africa. So it is not surprising that humans share a lot of genes.

As for your DNA analysis. Many people in America are Heinz 57. So you are correct, there are Europeans in your blood line despite the designation you gave yourself. Lets look at it this way:

one generation above = 2 people gave you genes
two =4 gave you genes
three = 8
four = 16
5 = 32
6 = 64
7 = 128
8 = 256

Eight generations is less than 200 years and we have been around for a long time. Before you know it, you are related to everybody in the place or country where you grew up. Add to that a bit of traveling and the mingling of genes is astronomical.
My wife got the DNA results for me and it says Northern European, and Asian. More interesting is it says halpogroup X. I did some research and learned X was "unknown" until a few years ago when it was discovered in southern Siberia. I found an article that said a very few NW Native Americans have X, most have A B C D and X.

I even found an article and I swear on The Bible I did know this article existed until after Julian658 brought up how I could be Northern European. 2003 The Children of Lehi: DNA and the Book of Mormon FAIR
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top