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Old 11-03-2013, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
If your husband had been an alcoholic and had been "dried" out, would you insist that he go with you to the neighborhood bar every week because you like it and had gone there much of your life?
What an accurate analogy! And lets not forget that in many instances an affair is an addiction and the only way to treat addiction is by stopping the drug.

Seeing the OW every week could very well rekindle the affair. An alcoholic going to the bar (thinking that he will not drink again despite all the available booze)will drink again.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
If your husband had been an alcoholic and had been "dried" out, would you insist that he go with you to the neighborhood bar every week because you like it and had gone there much of your life?
Perhaps you should be thinking about him rather than thinking about you? And if the God you worship is stuck in the four walls of the church you attend, then what is in your heart? When your life in Christ is about giving to others, consideration for others, becoming last instead of being first, you will find that you can be comfortable in a lot of different settings.
Change is difficult, but what you have described about remaining there certainly sounds dangerous to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
What an accurate analogy! And lets not forget that in many instances an affair is an addiction and the only way to treat addiction is by stopping the drug.
Seeing the OW every week could very well rekindle the affair. An alcoholic going to the bar (thinking that he will not drink again despite all the available booze)will drink again.
Excellent analogy and advice. It is even more complicated by the fact that once a man has had relations with a woman . . . he will tend to feel she is always available to him . . . sort of like his claimed "property." It is a particularly troubling psychological aspect of male dominance behavior. Whatever he says or claims to his wife is largely irrelevant because the probabilities for a recurrence is greater with weekly contact.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Let your heart guide you; not the perspectives of others.
It says clearly in the bible our hearts are easily deceived.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Let your heart guide you; not the perspectives of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minntoaz View Post
It says clearly in the bible our hearts are easily deceived.
That is OT stuff that was true of our savage ancestors. Since Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit is available to us to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant . . . it is NOT true. We just need to be sincere and not use the "precepts and doctrines of men" when we seek what is in our hearts. Ask WWJT . . . and use the "mind of Christ" (Not YHWH) which is ONLY what Jesus described about Himself in the Sermon on the Mount and in 1Cor 13 . . . NOT what was described in the OT.
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:44 AM
 
5,140 posts, read 2,530,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is OT stuff that was true of our savage ancestors. Since Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit is available to us to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant . . . it is NOT true. We just need to be sincere and not use the "precepts and doctrines of men" when we seek what is in our hearts. Ask WWJT . . . and use the "mind of Christ" (Not YHWH) which is ONLY what Jesus described about Himself in the Sermon on the Mount and in 1Cor 13 . . . NOT what was described in the OT.
Sure use, Not the heart, but use the 'mind' of Christ [1st Cor. 2:16 ] to instruct us because Jesus knows the mind of God [YHWH ].

The temporary Constitution of the Mosaic law was Not for savage ancestors, but for the whole nation of ancient Israel. -Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9
That does Not mean what was written in the Hebrew OT Scriptures was for savage ancestors.
As Romans 15:4 states the things ' written aforetime ' [ Hebrew Scriptures ] were written for our learning our instruction.....
ALL Scripture is inspired by God - 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 - for setting things straight.....
Scripture is Not the precepts and doctrines of men but God inspired.
The Scriptures are a light to our path [ immediate steps ] and a light to our future roadway [ high beams ] -Psalm 119:105
Weren't the Pharisees 'sincere' ? How did their sincerity prove to be a valuable guide when they were teaching religious customs and traditions outside of Scripture as if they were Scripture ? - Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9
Aren't the demons sincere in their belief according to James 2:19 ?
What is the kingly law, or royal law, that is mentioned at James 2:8 but that what is written in the Mosaic law is to love neighbor as self. What closer neighbor could there be than one's marriage mate ?

If we process our thoughts through our heartfelt emotions over Scripture that can have an adverse effect on our spiritual life. Are we rationalizing what our heartfelt emotions already want us to believe to the point that judgments we've already made are now impervious to any facts. Yes, the heart is more treacherous or deceitful than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it ? - Jeremiah 17:9
Our hearts today are still a traitor within us: When we make decisions by heart alone, then afterwards the heart gives us all the reasons why we should not have made that decision in the first place.
Whereas we can find the 'mind' [Not heart 1st Cor. 2:16 ] of Christ explaining the Hebrew Scriptures for us.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: In Sticky San Antonio TX
1,437 posts, read 2,555,242 times
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Move from this place, move from this controversy, and move from this congregation. There is nothing good to be had by staying there. Your husband was found in some 'improprieties,' was forgiven, and is trying to forge ahead. The woman he was with was supposed to leave but isn't. The veiled ideas of love and grace are being used as divisive weapons in your family. You and your husband made a covenant to G-d. Your husband is no longer getting benefit out of being there and the pastor's words are what is holding you to attendance, to let this blow away, let love and forgiveness prevail, and let him deal with his problem. Under the guise of forgiveness your husband is being beaten mercilessly, for the guilt that continues to rise and for the instruction he should stay and take his punishment or the 'just rewards' for being wrong.

I don't think any of that is Christian instruction. Being forgiven, he doesn't have to pay the punishment any longer. Paul and Barnabas separated when they had strife and they both had the full spirit of G-d in their dissension. If your husband is to live in grace it should be without fear of continued punishment. In the current environment, he has nothing but fear and condemnation. You don't have to be the bigger people or wait for the bigger person (the other woman to leave).

BTW, real love is found in churches, which is the basis of affairs - how about real lust? If you are trying to fix what is missing in your marriage, you get reminders weekly of what went wrong, a regurgitation of all that was sour. It's time to get up, move, and not look back. G-d can be found in a number of other environments and you need to settle your hearts and your marriage to hear G-d again. You are being subject to conflict and criticism, and were you to be right with your husband (he is forgiven) listen to what he is saying - he is no longer comfortable there - how is G-d ministering to his spirit? If you seek to have the equality in your relationship again, when will you listen to what he says? How will you hear G-d speaking through him? While well-intentioned, this counsel is backfiring and entangling you both further. Get out, get away, and don't look back.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:34 PM
 
545 posts, read 382,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liliBeth26 View Post
I will try to be brief, my husband has been struggling at our church after he had a one time affair with another women at church. We have stayed there for several months because we have been there for many years. We have waited for the other women to leave out of curtisy that we are still together and trying to work on our marriage. I have forgiven him but that doesn't mean that doubt enters my mind and am aware of every look and turn he does to see if I catch him seeing her. He has expressed that he wants to leave many times for the sake of our marriage but I feel that God hasn't given us the open door to leave. I have told him to wait untill the end of his discipline but he says whats the point of going if he's not comfortable there. I love the church and the Pastors that have been there in the hardest time of my life. The advice from the Pastors is to continue going to church and let God deal with him. I don't feel comfortable going to separate churches I think I'll feel more of a gap between our marriage if we worship in separate places. I would like to receive a mature advice on this matter I am not one of those persons that leave churh for little reasons but this is a different matter.
I have three sisters who all go to church and have young families so will try to reason this out as to what I would say to them if this ever happened. And first sorry to hear about the upset plus, this is only an opinion, the circumstance would have many things which would be unique as most things are.

The first thing I would do, and I would is go down to the church and have a chat with the minister. I would ask him how his interview about the situation went with the women.

I would try and explain or discuss with him if it was a male who did the same, has the individual been involved with interfering with other families ? I would want to know from him what investigation he has done with knowing. In other words I would say if it was a male interference, a leader would in many situations ask hm to find another church, finding another church has nothing to do with anything but common sense.

Common sense is what the Lords prayer is all about in the words, including lead us not into temptation I would mention to him. The family achieved unit is a priority and the origin of interference is outside the achieved unity and marriage sacramental vows. So the question to him would be what has been done to encourage the other to find a new church.

If there is nothing really doing here and the minister is simply leaving everything in the hands of God I would tell my sister to think about ( and this is very vague because I don't know much)

seeing the minister and informing him that after some time and good courage and so on that there are things still troubling in mind . With that I would explain to the minister the environment through no pointed exact blame has created an added occasion for things away from peace. I would inform him that the family is leaving and there is a request. In truth the other should be told , this is the outcome, the family is leaving because of what you are involved in.

Then leave. If the "other...dos not have the respect for the family and say no, tell them to stay I will find another Church, or the minister cannot inspire this outcome my opinion is that its a negative situation.

it could happen that after a month or so the other person leaves and you guys go back. If the women returns after leaving it would be most suspicious and a great ability to make a better demand from the minister.

I don't know though because there are many things. OP may feel better now and things may be ok. I don't know but if it was my sister the minister would receive a visit from one of the men in our family. I hope things go ok .
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: The State Line
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OP, I would add, before doing anything, I would pray about God leading you to a new church. He may lead you to another church; or he may not want you to stay and learn to work with others you may not like/get along with. I'm not saying this is the definite answer, but sometimes the answer to problems may not be to leave, but to stay until God resolves it another way. Know if you leave, you may still have to deal with people you don't see eye to eye with, and if you just leave without being led, you might find yourself in a church that isn't better or has another issue that may/may not be worse.

Or, even if the answer is to leave, I think it's important to know you're in the right place, because God places you in a church to become a part of the body (to worship/praise Him; fellowship; and for a purposes, however big/small it may be; etc.). At least if you pray, and if you are led to a new church, you'll know that you're still staying in God's will, and wouldn't be lead the wrong way, or are just leaving on your own accord (which could resort to church hopping because you don't "like" the other churches for x or y reason), because no church will be perfect. It's all a matter of knowing where God wants you.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:33 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,735,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Sure use, Not the heart, but use the 'mind' of Christ [1st Cor. 2:16 ] to instruct us because Jesus knows the mind of God [YHWH ].
The temporary Constitution of the Mosaic law was Not for savage ancestors, but for the whole nation of ancient Israel. -Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9
That does Not mean what was written in the Hebrew OT Scriptures was for savage ancestors.
If you believe in the New Covenant the "mind of Christ" will lead you to what God has "written in our hearts" through the Holy Spirit (Comforter). The New Covenant was necessary because the old didn't work. Words "written in ink" failed our savage ancestors because they did NOT have the Comforter and God had NOT "written in their hearts." THEY could not trust their hearts . . . but WE can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
As Romans 15:4 states the things ' written aforetime ' [ Hebrew Scriptures ] were written for our learning our instruction.....
ALL Scripture is inspired by God - 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 - for setting things straight.....
Scripture is Not the precepts and doctrines of men but God inspired.
The Scriptures are a light to our path [ immediate steps ] and a light to our future roadway [ high beams ] -Psalm 119:105
Weren't the Pharisees 'sincere' ? How did their sincerity prove to be a valuable guide when they were teaching religious customs and traditions outside of Scripture as if they were Scripture ? - Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9
Aren't the demons sincere in their belief according to James 2:19 ?
What is the kingly law, or royal law, that is mentioned at James 2:8 but that what is written in the Mosaic law is to love neighbor as self. What closer neighbor could there be than one's marriage mate ?
I repeat . . . they did NOT have the Comforter to guide them and God had NOT "written in their hearts" yet. We are blessed by the New Covenant and that is the Good News (Gospel).
Quote:
If we process our thoughts through our heartfelt emotions over Scripture that can have an adverse effect on our spiritual life. Are we rationalizing what our heartfelt emotions already want us to believe to the point that judgments we've already made are now impervious to any facts. Yes, the heart is more treacherous or deceitful than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it ? - Jeremiah 17:9
Our hearts today are still a traitor within us: When we make decisions by heart alone, then afterwards the heart gives us all the reasons why we should not have made that decision in the first place.
Whereas we can find the 'mind' [Not heart 1st Cor. 2:16 ] of Christ explaining the Hebrew Scriptures for us.
You are wrong. Our heart has the truth God wants us to know and we have the Comforter to guide us to it . . . if we are sincere and unselfish in our desire to know it. We cannot know it if we impose upon it what we are told in the "precepts and doctrines of men" through dogma and indoctrination. The OT descriptions of God are WRONG and Jesus came to correct them. He was rejected and our ignorant ancestors retained their savage beliefs about God despite Christ's example, teachings and unambiguous death. They corrupted His example of ultimate love for us all ("No greater love has any man . . .") . . . even toward His torturers and murderers ("Forgive them they know not what they do.") . . . and turned it into some bloody barbaric sacrifice to appease the ego of their jealous, vengeful God.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:57 PM
 
545 posts, read 382,865 times
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were only human, things can be difficult, The Lords Prayer and patience and common sense . All is available in the Lords Prayer, The Act of Contrition, The Glory Be, and importantly the Hail Mary. Said very slowly with good patience and understanding peace and joy extends its blessings in the good company and makes things very easy to patiently figure out.

Last edited by macpherson; 11-04-2013 at 03:42 PM..
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