U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-10-2013, 03:38 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 3,234,249 times
Reputation: 1552

Advertisements

I like the new Pope for the most part, but I am afraid he gets a grade F because he does not make it his first and primary job to openly address the horrific record by the Church and of previous popes when it comes to pedophile priests - and the bishops and cardinals and religious orders that protected them when they knew what they were doing.

I am truly surprised that there is not an outcry that this Pope will participate in the beatification of John Paul II. Here is why: John Paul II gave safe haven to Bernard Cardinal Law of Boston. Cardinal Law was basically run out of his own Archdiocese for having blatantly ignored pleas (in writing, shown in court) by parents whose children were being abused by the late John Goeghan and Paul Shanley.

I am upset because John Paul II and the last pope, Benedict, did precious little to speak out loudly (they should have been screaming!) about the travesty in the Church over hundreds of years.

I spoke stridently but feel that this inaction and barely audible outcry by Francis is extremely disturbing, and I find it mind boggling that he is willing to over look the actions of John Paul II to protect Cardinal Law.

Anyone from Boston knows exactly what I am talking about. Cardinal Law was a disgrace and Bostonians were outraged that John Paul II coddled and protected and befriended this Cardinal when in fact it should have been the opposite. John Paul II knew what he was doing and it is a disgrace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-10-2013, 07:02 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 3,234,249 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne View Post
I like the new Pope for the most part, but I am afraid he gets a grade F because he does not make it his first and primary job to openly address the horrific record by the Church and of previous popes when it comes to pedophile priests - and the bishops and cardinals and religious orders that protected them when they knew what they were doing.

I am truly surprised that there is not an outcry that this Pope will participate in the beatification of John Paul II. Here is why: John Paul II gave safe haven to Bernard Cardinal Law of Boston. Cardinal Law was basically run out of his own Archdiocese for having blatantly ignored pleas (in writing, shown in court) by parents whose children were being abused by the late John Goeghan and Paul Shanley.

I am upset because John Paul II and the last pope, Benedict, did precious little to speak out loudly (they should have been screaming!) about the travesty in the Church over hundreds of years.

I spoke stridently but feel that this inaction and barely audible outcry by Francis is extremely disturbing, and I find it mind boggling that he is willing to over look the actions of John Paul II to protect Cardinal Law.

Anyone from Boston knows exactly what I am talking about. Cardinal Law was a disgrace and Bostonians were outraged that John Paul II coddled and protected and befriended this Cardinal when in fact it should have been the opposite. John Paul II knew what he was doing and it is a disgrace.

Sorry, I meant to say that he will participate in the canonization of John Paul II. He is already beatified.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,865,688 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne View Post
Sorry, I meant to say that he will participate in the canonization of John Paul II. He is already beatified.
I'm sorry, but could you explain the difference in these terms to me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-10-2013, 10:32 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,963,461 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm sorry, but could you explain the difference in these terms to me?
Beatify is the first step....it means that the church recognizes a miracle attributed to them....but they are not a full-fledged canonized saint. The next step is for another miracle or two to occur and be attributed to them, then the formal canonization happens, and the church declares them to be a saint.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 01:30 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,202,743 times
Reputation: 45815
I'm not Catholic, therefore not an apologist for the faith. But I don't think you give the man nearly enough credit for what he has done in what has been a very short time:

Vatican removes deputy bishop in Peru after sex abuse allegations | Reuters

Vatican to cooperate in Dominican Republic pedophilia investigation | Reuters

Child abuse destroyed Catholicism's moral authority. Pope Francis will restore it | John Cornwell | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think there are a host of issues with Catholicism, and the man seems to have the necessary gravitas and courage to deal with them. But, contrary to popular belief, the head of such an enormous organization cannot simply snap his fingers and have the problems go away.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 01:36 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5853
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm not Catholic, therefore not an apologist for the faith. But I don't think you give the man nearly enough credit for what he has done in what has been a very short time:

Vatican removes deputy bishop in Peru after sex abuse allegations | Reuters

Vatican to cooperate in Dominican Republic pedophilia investigation | Reuters

Child abuse destroyed Catholicism's moral authority. Pope Francis will restore it | John Cornwell | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think there are a host of issues with Catholicism, and the man seems to have the necessary gravitas and courage to deal with them. But, contrary to popular belief, the head of such an enormous organization cannot simply snap his fingers and have the problems go away.
Excellent post!This pope genuinely seems to embrace Christ as his example . . . NOT the pomp and circumstance of his predecessors. Like St Francis whose name he chose . . . he believes in spreading Christ's Gospel of love . . . and using words only if necessary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 06:13 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 3,234,249 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm not Catholic, therefore not an apologist for the faith. But I don't think you give the man nearly enough credit for what he has done in what has been a very short time:

Vatican removes deputy bishop in Peru after sex abuse allegations | Reuters

Vatican to cooperate in Dominican Republic pedophilia investigation | Reuters

Child abuse destroyed Catholicism's moral authority. Pope Francis will restore it | John Cornwell | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think there are a host of issues with Catholicism, and the man seems to have the necessary gravitas and courage to deal with them. But, contrary to popular belief, the head of such an enormous organization cannot simply snap his fingers and have the problems go away.
Thank you, CPG. But if he has the necessary "gravitas" then he should have the courage to speak up about the coming canonization of Pope John Paul II, a man who decided that he would provide refuge to the disgraced Cardinal Law.

I am not being petty about this issue. It is beyond belief that John Paul II provided not only protection to this Cardinal, but an honorary position as rector of the largest and most important basilica in the Vatican City. This is so shocking. Yet, the same Pope will be canonized with the blessings of our current Pope Francis.

To be honest, I am mystified as to why this is happening. Cardinal Law was shown in court (the judge, when he refused, had to make a court order for Law to release the letters in his file) to have spurned the pleading parents of children who were raped by the infamous late, former, Rev. John Geoghan. Law also provided much support to the pedophile ex-priest, Paul Shanley, who is now serving a lengthy prison sentence. Law submitted his resignation amid outrage and the very next day took a plane to Rome where John Paul II provided a warm reception and the new position.

Francis knows all of this and yet he has not refused to participate in the canonization. I really do think that this is disgraceful and most discouraging. But I also don't agree with you: I feel that Francis needed and still needs to stop much of what he is doing and re-focus and make it Priority Number One to address the worldwide history of priest abuse on children and adults. He has not done that. It is shuffled somewhere in his deck of cards. This has been the worst crisis in recent memory and needs front and center attention by the Pope and the Vatican. This is simply not happening.

http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/vati...points_law.htm

"Boston attorney Mitchell Garabedian, who represents more than 130 alleged victims of sexual abuse by priests, said the Vatican was sending a bad message by giving Law a high profile new job.

"He apparently is being transferred to a position that is comfortable and appears to be some sort of reward," Garabedian said. "The Vatican either doesn't understand the problem of clergy sex abuse, or it doesn't care. That shows by this new prestigious post given to Cardinal Law."

The Boston Archdiocese was at the center of the national clergy sex abuse scandal following the release of church documents revealing that church leaders shuffled accused priests from parish to parish instead of removing them from ministry.

Law himself was named in hundreds of lawsuits accusing him of failing to protect children from known child molesters. Ten months after his departure, Law's successor, Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley, helped to broker an $85 million settlement agreement with more than 550 victims of clergy sex abuse."

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/11/2...aves-rome-job/

Last edited by Martha Anne; 11-11-2013 at 06:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 09:20 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 3,234,249 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I'm not Catholic, therefore not an apologist for the faith. But I don't think you give the man nearly enough credit for what he has done in what has been a very short time:

Child abuse destroyed Catholicism's moral authority. Pope Francis will restore it | John Cornwell | Comment is free | The Guardian

I think there are a host of issues with Catholicism, and the man seems to have the necessary gravitas and courage to deal with them. But, contrary to popular belief, the head of such an enormous organization cannot simply snap his fingers and have the problems go away.
With all respect, CPG, you have quoted an article which I read in entirety and it does not even address the sexual abuse issue within the Church, and this has been "the" main issue of concern in the last 15 or so years in the RCC. To repeat, I am shocked that this Pope has not even made it issue #2 when, as everyone knows, it was the primary scandal in the Church, worldwide.

I am truly not wanting to focus on the other things he has done - as wonderful as they have been - when we have heard so little from him about the rape of children by priests all over the world. And that is exactly what we all know happened: Rape of kids by priests! It truly amazes me that when he became Pope, Francis didn't make a huge deal over this issue which was given far less billing by the previous popes, John Paul II and Benedict. All they wanted to talk about was abortion, homosexuality and, with Benedict, a return to traditional obedience to Rome!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,039,386 times
Reputation: 39664
In all fairness to Pope Francis, we do not know what he is or isn't doing behind the scenes to address this very serious issue.

Give him time, I feel certain there is more to come from him on this in the future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
the law suits are not about child rape they are about cover up at high levels, and u r right its not over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top