Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Can you please explain to me what 1 Cor 22-28 means without chopping bits out of it or adding things to it.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
To me it means that there will be a few who will be saved from Gods wrath which will be the lake of fire. However it also says that there will be ultimate reconciliation of all. So I do believe that there is only a few who diligently seek Christ and submit and obey and are led of the Spirit and who do crucify the flesh in this lifetime and are saved from Gods wrath. That is what you are being saved from - his wrath. What is destroyed is the fleshly nature. Flesh and blood to not inherit the kingdom of God.
I agree with you about believe and be baptised. I believe the baptism is the Holy Spirit and means to be led of the Holy Spirit. Not be led by doctrines of the church.
What I don't believe is that the punishment and God's wrath will last longer than his mercy. Gods wrath lasts/abides until repentance and submission, then he has mercy. I don't believe that Gods mercy is limited to this lifetime and his wrath lasts forever. It goes against what Jesus taught which was forgiveness and loving your enemy. What we are instructed to do is what God will do.
I don't like to label myself as anything except a follower of Christ.
What I don't believe is that the punishment and God's wrath will last longer than his mercy. Gods wrath lasts/abides until repentance and submission, then he has mercy. I don't believe that Gods mercy is limited to this lifetime and his wrath lasts forever. It goes against what Jesus taught which was forgiveness and loving your enemy. What we are instructed to do is what God will do.
I hadn't heard that. When I think of "safe"... I think of "saved". I'll do a search on that and look into it a bit. I've never seen fire that is spiritually that refines as a bad thing. Faith is refined through fire and comes out purified. Fire that is of God refines people and burns away all things contrary to faith - purifying. Might as well post a scripture on that. Thanks for the "heads up" on "safe harbor". I'll want to find that reference.
1 Peter 1:7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
1 Cor. 3:11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
"The Day" sounds like Judgment Day when everything will be tried by fire.
1 Cor. 3:14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
The scripture says that some will come through the fire with no works - having only built on a wrong foundation not Jesus Christ in this life - but that they will come through the fire saved having no reward based on Christian life in this world. (This is where it also says that the temple of flesh will be destroyed.) Sounds like the fire is a "safe harbor" where wood hay and stubble is burned - and people come through the fire saved.
On Judgment Day people will be thrown into the lake of fire. I've believed that those who come through the fire that tests works done on earth and have nothing but themselves coming through the fire saved... are those people who were unsaved on Judgment Day. That's why, I believe, they had no Christian works on earth. It appears to me to show that the lake of fire is purifying and destroys the temple of their bodies... which God then rebuilds... as they come through the fire saved - though with no rewards for works on earth - as the end result.
When I hear about weeping and gnashing of teeth - honestly, I think about the wicked witch of the West. She was evil... and was destroyed by water. Of course, she screamed... her evil was being vaporized. I see the evil of people weeping and gnashing with teeth like that as they who are evil are destroyed by the fire. But I see them then coming through the fire redeemed... having been changed by the Lord when the evil was destroyed and the corruptible put on incorruptible.... the natural body being destroyed and a spiritual body being recreated anew in Christ.
God is able. I want to look up that "safe harbor" reference. (I'll surf the net a bit.) Thanks!
Grace and peace,
"LeeLee"
I cannot believe that you guys got that "fire/flames" interpretation to make it look like one would be saved after walking through fire. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, GET THE INTERLINEAR GREEK AND START READING AT 1 COR 3:1. READ IT SLOWLY AND WITH NO NOISE IN THE ROOM. CONCENTRATE AS YOU READ EACH AND EVERY VERSE. PAY ATTENTION TO THE PASSAGES AND WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. I THINK YOU ARE WAY OFF ON YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ON WHAT THESE VERSES ARE TALKING ABOUT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE WORDS "ESCAPING THOUGH FLAMES" IS NOT AT ALL WHAT THE ORIGINAL GREEK SAYS. WAYYYYYY OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG CONTEXT PEOPLE~ MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT ENLIGHTEN YOU TO ALL TRUTH.
"For his anger endureth but a moment..." (Psalm 30:5) but, "...his mercy endureth for ever." (Psalnm 136:1-26) What is popularly taught is, "His mercy is very conditional and easily withdrawn, but His wrath endureth for ever," the reverse of God's word. You can't have it both ways. Will what is written triumph in your mind?
1 Cor 3: COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY (PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ)
I. ...Some build upon this foundation gold, silver, and precious stones (v. 12), namely, those who receive and propagate the pure truths of the gospel, who hold nothing but the truth as it is in Jesus, and preach nothing else.
II. Others build wood, hay, and stubble, on this foundation; that is, though they adhere to the foundation, they depart from the mind of Christ in many particulars, substitute their own fancies and inventions in the room of his doctrines and institutions, and build upon the good foundation what will not abide the test when the day of trial shall come, and the fire must make it manifest, as wood, hay, and stubble, will not bear the trial by fire, but must be consumed in it. There is a time coming when a discovery will be made of what men have built on this foundation: Every man’s work shall be made manifest, shall be laid open to view, to his own view and that of others. Some may, in the simplicity of their hearts, build wood and stubble on the good foundation, and know not, all the while, what they have been doing; but in the day of the Lord their own conduct shall appear to them in its proper light. There are others whose works shall be burnt (v. 15), whose corrupt opinions and doctrines, or vain inventions and usages in the worship of God, shall be discovered, disowned, and rejected, in that day-shall be first manifested to be corrupt, and then disapproved of God and rejected.Note, The great day will pluck off all disguises, and make things appear as they are: He whose work shall be burnt will suffer loss. If he have built upon the right foundation wood and hay and stubble, he will suffer loss. His weakness and corruption will be the lessening of his glory, though he may in the general have been an honest and an upright Christian. This part of his work will be lost, turning no way to his advantage, though he himself may be saved.Observe, Those who hold the foundation of Christianity, though they build hay, wood, and stubble, upon it, may be saved. This may help to enlarge our charity. We should not reprobate men for their weakness: for nothing will damn men but wickedness. He shall be saved, yet so as by fire, saved out of the fire.He himself shall be snatched out of that flame which will consume his work. This intimates that it will be difficult for those that corrupt and deprave Christianity to be saved. God will have no mercy on their works, though he may pluck them as brands out of the burning. On this passage of scripture the papists found their doctrine of purgatory, which is certainly hay and stubble: a doctrine never originally fetched from scripture, but invented in barbarous ages, to feed the avarice and ambition of the clergy, at the cost of those who would rather part with their money than their lusts, for the salvation of their souls. It can have no countenance from this text, (1.) Because this is plainly meant of a figurative fire, not of a real one: for what real fire can consume religious rites or doctrines? (2.) Because this fire is to try men’s works, of what sort they are; but purgatory-fire is not for trial, not to bring men’s actions to the test, but to punish for them. They are supposed to be venial sins, not satisfied for in this life, for which satisfaction must be made by suffering the fire of purgatory. (3.) Because this fire is to try every man’s works, those of Paul and Apollos, as well as those of others. Now, no papists will have the front to say apostles must have passed through purgatory fires. -Matthew Henry, Commentary on 1 Corinthians
My former husband blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It's easy to judge those who cannot believe. They cannot believe. I've lived with them, had friends, worked with people. It's because of Jesus the Savior that all will be saved. They will come to faith. There's no way God will give Christians faith now, deny them faith, and judge them eternally. I will stand up for the atheists against any Christian who would judge them like they are unbelivers - and had the same opportunity and ability of believers to choose Christ. They don't. Period.
They will be saved the same way we are. BECAUSE Jesus atoned for all our sins - THUS God can give faith and recreate all... and will. Such is the atonement.
I watched my ex blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I loved him. I'll stand against any doctrine which will judge him as having same choosing power as Christians or consign him to eternity in hell.
Jesus died for him. The atonement WILL be applied through God giving him faith IN JESUS one day. I'll stand against doctrine which states some are on the right rather than the left on the basis superior choice given the same opportunity and ability. No one would be saved apart from Jesus. Everyone will be saved BECAUSE of the atonement of Jesus.
I like atheists. I love them. I'll see them in Heaven. God will give them faith one day. Why? Because of God's will, God's plan, and the atonement - the source point of saving faith... that will reach all in extent.
Grace and peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Wow...I totally missed this. I guess debating the issue of eternal hell so passionately kept me from seeing it. Thanks, Alpha.
"For his anger endureth but a moment..." (Psalm 30:5) but, "...his mercy endureth for ever." (Psalnm 136:1-26) What is popularly taught is, "His mercy is very conditional and easily withdrawn, but His wrath endureth for ever," the reverse of God's word. You can't have it both ways. Will what is written triumph in your mind?
I believe that the wrath of God will be totally effective in convincing many who don't know of their need for a Savior in the realization that they are truly lost and without hope. We must be lost first before we are found but many don't know that they are truly lost. Many don't realize that they are sick, broken and in need of a Savior. God will convince just as He has convinced us and all binders and blinders will be removed. The true light which enlightens every man has come into the world. Eventually the darkness that has not overcome the light of Jesus Christ will be removed. For as in Adam all die, in Christ, all will be made alive. God bless.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation/creature waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation/creature was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope21. that the creation /creature itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now
There are degrees of glory. According to your works (desire to be like Christ and live it) determines the glory that one will inherit.
There are very low degrees and the highest being the throne of God.
Very few are reserved for outer darkness (to the complete nothingness), and those that are, beg to be nothing in order that the memory of their crimes may be no more.
I sincerely don't understand this... and wonder what your reasoning or source is?? The way I am thinking is this:
2 Cor. 3:17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect[a] the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
There's the scripture that says when we see Him we shall be like He is. Plus, we all have the same salvation - we will all see Jesus perfectly on that day.
Also, there is no shadow of turning with God. There's no darkness in light whatsoever.
How could we who are in the manifest presence of God... seeing His face fully... and all having the same Spirit and salvation... with no darkness whatsoever mixedwith the Spriit of the Lord who is Light... shine with varying degrees of light in the presence of the Lord?? We are saved completely by grace... the same grace. I think of us as all the same and all equal in Jesus... by virtue of the Spirit.
I'm not saying you're wrong... I just never of anything like varying shades or degrees of glory. I thought it was total 100% Light or total 100% darkness.... because dark and light don't mix...and wil be complete separated at the end. Can you please share more of your thoughts so I can consider them in light of scripture as best I can understand your pov???
Grace and peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
There are degrees of glory. According to your works (desire to be like Christ and live it) determines the glory that one will inherit.
There are very low degrees and the highest being the throne of God.
Very few are reserved for outer darkness (to the complete nothingness), and those that are, beg to be nothing in order that the memory of their crimes may be no more.
godspeed,
freedom
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
