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Old 02-08-2008, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,723,739 times
Reputation: 844

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
I already posted these verses... Why do I need the armor? Please explain in your own words. I'm not trying to be rude... I just wonder how you see these verses and the Paul's emphasis on the apparent importance of our armor?
I think I know where you're coming from cg, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it's the same question as "Why send missionaries if everyone will eventually be saved?"

I do understand that if someone sees the entire purpose of the gospel is to save people from eternally bad afterlives, then, if someone else takes that premise away, it begs the question: "Then what are we fighting for? What are we suffering for?"

Is this where you're coming from?
- byron

 
Old 02-08-2008, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,669,853 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Yes.. for everyone. They believe in the eventual restoration of all. (the topic of this thread)
How does that work for the sons of perdition and those that receive the second death?

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 02-08-2008, 06:23 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,879,965 times
Reputation: 1610
Some people just cannot reconsile universalism in their mind because of their foundation for walking with Christ. It`s as if they are a christian because they are afraid if they are not,they will be tormented forever. Universalist have faith,not really because we are afraid of anything but because of the love of God. Sort of like the same relationship you have with your earthly father. There is a healthy sort of fear of corrective punishment from your earthly father but not this frightful terrorizing fear that he will disown you forever if you disobey. We love our parents because they first loved us. They punish us because they love us. They sort of mold our behavior. They want us to grow up and be nice,respectful,law abiding citizens. Christians who believe in eternal torment seem to have this idea that we should be out prancing around in the street doing whatever we want because hey....God is going to save us all anyway. Sure I disobeyed my parents sometimes when I was young but I also stayed away from doing some things because I loved my parents and I didn`t want to disappoint them. It`s the the same with UR. We are drawn to God and we cannot help but to try and live right. Do we disobey...sure. Do we sin...sure. We have stated over abd over on here..we believe in punishment..there will be consequences for our actions.But we have faith and walk with God because of God in us. I could run around and do whatever I want,but I don`t because I have no desire too. Do you see that? It`s not about doing whatever you want because of second chances etc. That`s the one argument that ET christians make all the time that I can never understand. It`s as if they are saying..if it wasn`t for their fear of eternal torment they would be doing whatever they wanted. So their logic is.. since you don`t believe in ET why aren`t you..I mean you get a second chance...God`s going to save you anyway. That`s what I don`t get. I have no desire to do that because of God in me. I want to please God. My desire is to please him. It`s not about second chances etc. Is your faith and love of God that weak? Is that the foundation of your whole walk with God..ET ? I hope not. So God gives us his armor so we can walk with him and live fruitfully in this age.

Last edited by spm62; 02-08-2008 at 07:11 PM.. Reason: repost
 
Old 02-08-2008, 06:50 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 2,460,957 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
How does that work for the sons of perdition and those that receive the second death?

godspeed,

freedom
The Lake of Fire is rooted in theion, theios, and at the foundation, Theos. We already know from the apostle St. Paul that everything begins in Him, is sustained by Him, and ends in Him...."From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists, and in Him everything ends." My question to you. Can you articulate the defining characteristics of our God who is consuming pur, and the Lake of Theos/Pur? And, how does that work for the sanctified ones whose final destiny is union with our God the consuming fire?
 
Old 02-08-2008, 07:00 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,879,965 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
How does that work for the sons of perdition and those that receive the second death?

godspeed,

freedom
The only way to enter into God`s kingdom is to be born again. Everbody has to experience two deaths....a physical death which we all know and a spirtual death. Our `old man` or sinful nature must die. God deals with our `old man` or sinful nature in one way...DEATH! He doesn`t try to re-educate the old man or transform him. The sinful nature must die and Jesus crucified him on the cross. For a select few,that death to old man occurs in this age. We are the firstfruits to rule with Christ in his millenial kingdom. For others, they will experience that second death in the `lake of fire`.They will be humbled just like a few in this life until they get rid of their old man and come to understand and accept Jesus`s crucifying of that sinful nature on the cross. They will stand in front of God`s consuming fire. He is called the consuming fire. What is he consuming? what is burned up in god`s fire or the lake of fire? It is our works our sinful nature..pride. I also believe God`s firstfruits will be the ones helping our loved ones and friends leave the lake of fire and enter into the holy city.But I believe the degrees of punishment will be different and for different durations but in the end, they too will come to accept the death of their `old man`so that God will restore HIS creation to it`s original purpose and the works of evil and death completely destroyed and God will be ALL in ALL just like he said he would.
 
Old 02-08-2008, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,669,853 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
The Lake of Fire is rooted in theion, theios, and at the foundation, Theos. We already know from the apostle St. Paul that everything begins in Him, is sustained by Him, and ends in Him...."From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists, and in Him everything ends." My question to you. Can you articulate the defining characteristics of our God who is consuming pur, and the Lake of Theos/Pur? And, how does that work for the sanctified ones whose final destiny is union with our God the consuming fire?
The sanctified are only those that live and keep His commandments.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 02-08-2008, 07:39 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,879,965 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
The only way to enter into God`s kingdom is to be born again. Everbody has to experience two deaths....a physical death which we all know and a spirtual death. Our `old man` or sinful nature must die. God deals with our `old man` or sinful nature in one way...DEATH! He doesn`t try to re-educate the old man or transform him. The sinful nature must die and Jesus crucified him on the cross. For a select few,that death to old man occurs in this age. We are the firstfruits to rule with Christ in his millenial kingdom. For others, they will experience that second death in the `lake of fire`.They will be humbled just like a few in this life until they get rid of their old man and come to understand and accept Jesus`s crucifying of that sinful nature on the cross. They will stand in front of God`s consuming fire. He is called the consuming fire. What is he consuming? what is burned up in god`s fire or the lake of fire? It is our works our sinful nature..pride. I also believe God`s firstfruits will be the ones helping our loved ones and friends leave the lake of fire and enter into the holy city.But I believe the degrees of punishment will be different and for different durations but in the end, they too will come to accept the death of their `old man`so that God will restore HIS creation to it`s original purpose and the works of evil and death completely destroyed and God will be ALL in ALL just like he said he would.
One thing to keep in mind...he is called the God of the Ages. When you come to realize that God is working out his plan of restoration (for his fallen creation) through the ages it gives you a different perspective.
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,669,853 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
The only way to enter into God`s kingdom is to be born again. Everbody has to experience two deaths....a physical death which we all know and a spirtual death. Our `old man` or sinful nature must die. God deals with our `old man` or sinful nature in one way...DEATH! He doesn`t try to re-educate the old man or transform him. The sinful nature must die and Jesus crucified him on the cross. For a select few,that death to old man occurs in this age. We are the firstfruits to rule with Christ in his millenial kingdom. For others, they will experience that second death in the `lake of fire`.They will be humbled just like a few in this life until they get rid of their old man and come to understand and accept Jesus`s crucifying of that sinful nature on the cross. They will stand in front of God`s consuming fire. He is called the consuming fire. What is he consuming? what is burned up in god`s fire or the lake of fire? It is our works our sinful nature..pride. I also believe God`s firstfruits will be the ones helping our loved ones and friends leave the lake of fire and enter into the holy city.But I believe the degrees of punishment will be different and for different durations but in the end, they too will come to accept the death of their `old man`so that God will restore HIS creation to it`s original purpose and the works of evil and death completely destroyed and God will be ALL in ALL just like he said he would.
The traditions of the churches have lost the true meaning to Born of God.

Jesus came that we might have life.... Life EVER lasting. The last enemy to be overcome is death.

True most go into the ditch (grave). There are those that have overcome death, and they are fulfilling the promise through keeping the words of Christ.

Satan is the author of death. God is the author of life...

Jesus said to those that believe, they shall never see death.

Define the highest degree of belief and then you will understand the message of life everlasting, or without end.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 02-08-2008, 08:49 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,879,965 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Jesus said to those that believe, they shall never see death.
Do you know what he meant by that?
There is a second death so there must be a first death.
Do you know what the first death is?
 
Old 02-08-2008, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,669,853 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Do you know what he meant by that?
There is a second death so there must be a first death.
Do you know what the first death is?
The Self

godspeed,

freedom
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