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Old 02-20-2008, 08:01 PM
 
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Quote:
He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. From sea to sea may His dominion extend...they that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before Him...yes, all kings shall prostrate themselves before Him, they shall pay him homage...He will deliver the needy, he is sympathetic towards the frail and needy, and saves the life of the poor. -Psl. 72-
Note:

1. God's dominion is how far? "From sea to sea." & "to the ends of the earth."

2. All kings shall prostrate themselves before Him. All kings shall pay Him homage.

3. The ends of the earth include the wilderness. How many in the wilderness will bow down before Him and pay Him homage?

"They that dwell in the wilderness."

4. Our God is the delivering God! He delivers the needy. He delivers the frail. He is a sympathetic God. He saves the life of the poor.

Quote:
All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, Oh Lord; and shall give glory and honour to Your Name. -Psl. 86:9
How many nations shall come and worship the Lord?

"All nations whom You have made."

Quote:
Sing to the Lord a new song; in the Lord's honour, let the whole earth make melody. -Psl. 96:1-
How many sing a new song in the Lord's honour? How many make melody before Him?

"The whole earth"

 
Old 02-21-2008, 08:28 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 4,071,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Note:

1. God's dominion is how far? "From sea to sea." & "to the ends of the earth."

2. All kings shall prostrate themselves before Him. All kings shall pay Him homage.

3. The ends of the earth include the wilderness. How many in the wilderness will bow down before Him and pay Him homage?

"They that dwell in the wilderness."

4. Our God is the delivering God! He delivers the needy. He delivers the frail. He is a sympathetic God. He saves the life of the poor.



How many nations shall come and worship the Lord?

"All nations whom You have made."



How many sing a new song in the Lord's honour? How many make melody before Him?

"The whole earth"
Birdy, the way you are pulling verses out of context, misinterpreting them and applying verses that are totally irrelevant to the subject to prove your point, and at the same time ignoring clear scripture, is unbelievable.

It also appears that you are trying to use "Greek original wording" to say "this is what it really means," but from the following two posts you posted, it looks like that is also totally subject to interpretation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
It is quite beyond expression isn't it!
Quote:
'I have loved thee with an everlasting love.' You can never translate that word "everlasting" into English. It simply means that you have got into the spaceless, boundless realm, you have fallen out of time to where time is no more. You have gone out into that mysterious something where nothing can be taken hold of as tangible, it is all beyond you, beyond your grasp, beyond your calculation, beyond your power to cope with it and bring it into some kind of dimensions. That is the word: beyond you, beyond your time, beyond your world, beyond all your ways of thinking and working. 'I have loved thee with an everlasting, timeless, spaceless love.' Did you notice the alternate marginal reading? 'Jehovah appeared of old unto me'? It is, 'from afar appeared unto me' -outside of our world altogether. He says, 'I have loved you with a love altogether outside of our world altogether outside of time and space. -T. Austin Sparks-
Huh? ^ v

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
What The New Testament Teaches

Aeonian Life Passes Into A Region Above Time

Let us consider the true meaning of the words "aion" and "aionios".

These are the originals of the terms rendered by our translators "everlasting," for ever and ever" and on this translation, so misleading, a vast portion of the popular dogma of endless torment is built up.;

I say, without hesitation, misleading and incorrect; for "aion" means "an age," a limited period, whether long or short, though often of indefinite length; and the adjective "aionios" means "of the age," "age-long," "aeonian," and NEVER "everlasting" (of its own proper force), it is true that it may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God.....
I can only hope that everyone else can see that the theory of UR is built on lies and unbelief.

Hath God Said?


Last edited by cg81; 02-21-2008 at 08:51 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2008, 08:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Huh? ^ v
The fact is C.G. there is no word in all of the Living Oracles (Greek or Hebrew) that in itself expresses eternal. We know that the Lord is eternal, but it is not on the basis of the noun aion, or the adjective aionios upon which it stands. The Lord Jesus Christ defined zoe aionios thus...

Quote:
This is zoe aionios that we might know You the only true God and Jesus Christ whom You did send.
Aion never has, never will mean everlasting, even when used in conjunction with the Eternal One. He is the God of the ages, but the foundation of His endlessness is not on the basis of aion or aionios!

In the Greek Scriptures endlessness is never expressed in terms of eons or of that which is eonian. The Scriptures never speak of "the endless eons of eternity."

Endlessness=

Endlessness is expressed by the use of negatives such as "not", "no not", "un", and "less." For example "Of His kingdom there shall be no end" ouk estai telos (Luke 1:33);

"endless life" akatalutou (Heb. 7:16);

"endless genealogies" aperantois (1 Tim. 1:4) and,

"nevermore" ou me eti (Rev. 18:21-23)

Greek Words That Denote Endlessness

Amarantos= Unfading=

Not fading away. Perennial

Amarantinos=

Unfading.

Composed of amaranth. A flower so called because it never withers or fades, and when plucked off revives if moistened by water.

Akatalutos=

Endless

Not subject to destruction.

Indissoluable.

Aphthartos=

Incorruptible. Not subject to decay.

Imperishable.

Athanasia=

Immortality. Undying

Literally: deathlessness.

Aphtharsia=

Incorruption/ perpetuity.

NOTE:

There is no word in Scripture, Old or New Covenant, that expresses our idea of eternal. These words "denote" endlessness.

Last edited by Birdy_56; 02-21-2008 at 09:06 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:04 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,763,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
I can only hope that everyone else can see that the theory of UR is built on lies and unbelief.
Dear St. Paul, please be advised that your revelation of our Father gathering together the ta pavnte of the heavens and the earth and the underworld in the Monogenes Son is based on lies and unbelief.

Quote:
Through the Son God made the whole universe and to the Son He has ordained all creation shall ultimately belong.
Quote:
God was in Christ returning to favour the whole alienated and hostile mass of humanity unto Himself.
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all mankind unto condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience the mass of mankind were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall the mass of mankind be made righteous."
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:10 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 4,071,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
The fact is C.G. there is no word in all of the Living Oracles (Greek or Hebrew) that in itself expresses eternal. We know that the Lord is eternal, but it is not on the basis of the noun aion, or the adjective aionios upon which it stands.
So what you are saying is.. anywhere where it says "everlasting" or "eternal" that is totally subject to interpretation whether it means "for a time" or actually forever, endless.
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
So what you are saying is.. anywhere where it says "everlasting" or "eternal" that is totally subject to interpretation whether it means "for a time" or actually forever, endless.
Listen carefully, as Judge Judy says...."Put on your listening ears"

Neither aion or aionios (in themselves) demonstrates our English word everlasting or eternal. In fact, aionios can and is exceeded!

Exceeding aionios

We read in the Sacred Secrets regarding our light affliction which is but for a moment: ie. the present light burden of our affliction. This light burden is working out, or achieving, a far more exceeding and aionios weight of glory...

(kaq uperobolhn eiv uperbolhn aiwnion barov doxhv.)

The remarkable scholar of Koine, Dr. Marvin Vincent, writes....

Quote:
More and more exceedingly an eternal weight. An expression after the form of Hebrew superlatives, in which the emphatic word is twice repeated. Literally: exceedingly unto excess.
A.T. Robertson records kat' uperbolhn eiv uperbolhn (more and more exceedingly) as like "piling Pelion on Ossa according to excess unto excess."

Aionios, without question, is transcending the scope of time into caliber. The Lord Jesus Christ defined what life aionios is. It is life that is knowing the Father and the Son. "This is life aionios, that we may know Thee the only true God and Jesus Christ...."

I have been reading the words of the patriot, preacher Elhanan Winchester in Dialogues On The Universal Restoration where he writes...

Quote:
This is what is called 'a better and enduring substance.' But what shall I say of the apostle's words in 2 Cor. 4:17? For our light affliction which is but for a moment, worketh for us, kath hyperbolen eis hyperbolen aionion baros doxes katergazetai emin: a glory exceeding aionion, or eternal, to an excess. Here is an hyperbole upon hyperbole; beyond eternal; a far more exceeding eternal weight of glory.
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:32 AM
 
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I appreciate your original way of ignoring the question () but to make it simpler..

Is the same root word used for "everlasting" in both of these verses?

Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

Last edited by cg81; 02-21-2008 at 09:43 AM..
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:37 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,763,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
I can only hope that everyone else can see that the theory of UR is built on lies and unbelief.
Dear St. Paul: please be advised that St. CG declares the restitution of all things is built on lies and unbelief. Would you like to modify your statement?

Quote:
For by Him everybody and everything were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—everybody and everything have been created through Him and for Him. He is before everybody and everything, and in Him everybody and everything is held together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everybody and everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile everybody and everything to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, everybody and everything on earth or in heaven.
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
I appreciate you original way of ignoring the question () but to make it simpler..

Is the same root word used for "everlasting" in both of these verses?

Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal
Nope: one is aionios the other is olam.

And again, CG., aionios kolasis is rooted in correction and change: and kolosis is founded on kolazo which means likewise....pruning and trimming. Do you really think the Master of the Reconciliation was speaking of correction that never reaches consummation?

Quote:
The Lord is good to all and His tender mercies embrace all His creatures.
 
Old 02-21-2008, 09:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
Nope: one is aionios the other is olam.

And again, CG., aionios kolasis is rooted in correction and change: and kolosis is founded on kolazo which means likewise....pruning and trimming.
But like you mentioned.. whether it actually means "for a time" or "eternal" is up to the reader's discretion, because no such word as eternal, as we would interpret it today, exists in the Living Oracles.
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