U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-24-2013, 11:12 AM
 
103 posts, read 91,291 times
Reputation: 39

Advertisements

Here are excerpts of a sermon given by Fr. Arnold Damen S.J. over 100 hundred years ago. His words are more relevant than at any time in history. Let this Christmas be one in which you are truly blessed and come into the fold of the one true Christian Church which was established by and follows our savior Jesus Christ.

For, my dear people, if God has intended that man should learn His (God's) religion from a book -- the Bible -- surely God would have given that book to man; Christ would have given that book to man. Did He do it? He did not. Christ sent His Apostles throughout the whole universe and said: "Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Christ did not say, "Sit down and write Bibles and scatter them over the earth, and let every man read his Bible and judge for himself." If Christ had said that, there would never have been a Christianity on the earth at all, but a Babylon and confusion instead, and never one Church, the union of one body. Hence, Christ never said to His Apostles, "Go and write Bibles and distribute them, and let everyone judge for himself." That injunction was reserved for the Sixteenth Century, and we have seen the result of it. Ever since the Sixteenth Century there have been springing up religion upon religion, and churches upon churches, all fighting and quarreling with one another. And all because of private interpretation of the Bible.

Christ sent His Apostles with the authority to teach all nations, and never gave them any command of writing the Bible. And the Apostles went forth and preached everywhere, and planted the Church of God throughout the earth, but never thought of writing.

The first word written was by St. Matthew (a Catholic), and he wrote for the benefit of a few individuals. He wrote the Gospel about seven years after Christ left this earth, so that the Church of God, established by Christ, existed seven years before a line was written of the New Testament.

St. Mark (also a Catholic) wrote about ten years after Christ left this earth; St. Luke (another Catholic) about twenty-five years, and St. John (still another Catholic) about sixty-three years after Christ had established the Church of God. St. John wrote the last portion of the Bible -- the Book of the Apocalypse (or Revelation as the Protestants call it) -- about sixty-five years after Christ had left this earth and the Church of God had been established. The Catholic religion had existed sixty-five years before the Bible was completed, before it was written.

There are now throughout the world three hundred and fifty different denominations or churches, and all of them say the Bible is their guide and teacher. And we'll suppose they are all sincere. Are all of them true churches? This is an impossibility. Truth is one as God is one, and there can be no contradiction. Every man in his senses sees that every one of them cannot be true, for they differ and contradict one another, and cannot, therefore, be all true. The Protestants say the man that reads the Bible right and prayerfully has Truth, and they all say that they read it right.

Let us suppose that here is an Episcopalian minister. He is (just for the sake of argument) a sincere, an honest, a well-meaning and prayerful man. He reads his Bible in a prayerful spirit, and from the Word of the Bible, he says it is clear that there must be bishops. For without bishops there can be no priests, without priests no Sacraments, and without Sacraments no Church. The Presbyterian is a sincere and well meaning man. He reads the Bible also, and deduces that there should be no bishops, but only presbyters. "Here is the Bible," says the Episcopalian; and "here is the Bible to give you a lie," says the Presbyterian. Yet both of them are prayerful and well-meaning men.

Then the Baptist comes in. He is (again for the sake of argument) a well-meaning, honest man, and prayerful also. "Well," says the Baptist, "have you ever been baptized?" "I was," says the Episcopalian, "when I was a baby."

"And so was I," says the Presbyterian, "when I was a baby." "But," says the Baptist, "you are going to Hell as sure as you live."

Next comes the Unitarian, (presumably) well-meaning, honest, and sincere. "Well," says the Unitarian, "allow me to tell you that you are a pack of idolaters. You worship a man for a God who is no God at all." And he gives several texts from the Bible to prove it, while the others are stopping their ears that they may not hear the blasphemies of the Unitarian. And they all contend that they have the true meaning of the Bible.

Next comes the Methodist, and he says, "My friends, have you got any religion at all?" "Of course we have," they say. "Did you ever feel religion," says the Methodist, "the Spirit of God moving within you?" "Nonsense," says the Presbyterian, "we are guided by our reason and judgment." "Well," says the Methodist, "if you have never felt religion, you never had it, and will go to Hell for eternity."

The Universalist next comes in, and hears them threatening one another with eternal hellfire. "Why," says he, "you are a strange set of people. Do you not understand the Word of God? There is no Hell at all. That idea is good enough to scare old women and children," and he proves it from the Bible.

Now comes in the Quaker. He urges them not to quarrel, and advises that they do not baptize at all. He is the sincerest of men (not really, but for argument's sake), and gives the Bible for his faith.

Another comes in and says: "Baptize the men and let the women alone. For the Bible says, 'unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.' So," says he, "the women are all right, but baptize the men."

Next comes in the Shaker, and says he: "You are a presumptuous people. Do you not know that the Bible tells you that you must work out your salvation in fear and trembling, and you do not tremble at all. By brethren, if you want to go to heaven shake, brother, shake!"

The Bible, my dear people, is a good book. We Catholics allow that the Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, and every Catholic is exhorted to read the Bible. But good as it is, the Bible, my dear friends, does not explain itself.

"I believe," says the Catholic, "because the Church teaches me so. I believe the Church because God has commanded me to believe her. He said: 'Hear the Church, and he that does not hear the Church let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican.' 'He that heareth you heareth Me,' said Christ, 'and he that despiseth you despiseth Me.'" Therefore, the Catholic believes because God has spoken, and upon the authority of God.

But our Protestant friends say, "We believe in the Bible." Very well; how do you understand the Bible? "Well," says the Protestant, "to the best of my opinion and judgment this is the meaning of the text." He is not sure of it, but to the best of his opinion and judgment. This, my friends, is only the testimony of a man -- it is only human faith, not Divine Faith.

It is Divine Faith alone by which we give honor and glory to God, by which we adore His infinite wisdom and veracity, and that adoration and worship is necessary for salvation.

I have now proved to you that the private interpretation of the Scripture cannot be the guide or teacher of man. In another lecture I shall prove that the Catholic Church is the only true Church of God, and that there is no other: outside of which there is no salvation.

(This Sermon is Public Domain and available for all who seek truth)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-24-2013, 12:03 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 9,314,611 times
Reputation: 7214
Quote:
Originally Posted by PONDerings View Post
Here are excerpts of a sermon given by Fr. Arnold Damen S.J. over 100 hundred years ago. His words are more relevant than at any time in history. Let this Christmas be one in which you are truly blessed and come into the fold of the one true Christian Church which was established by and follows our savior Jesus Christ.

For, my dear people, if God has intended that man should learn His (God's) religion from a book -- the Bible -- surely God would have given that book to man; Christ would have given that book to man. Did He do it? He did not. Christ sent His Apostles throughout the whole universe and said: "Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Christ did not say, "Sit down and write Bibles and scatter them over the earth, and let every man read his Bible and judge for himself." If Christ had said that, there would never have been a Christianity on the earth at all, but a Babylon and confusion instead, and never one Church, the union of one body. Hence, Christ never said to His Apostles, "Go and write Bibles and distribute them, and let everyone judge for himself." That injunction was reserved for the Sixteenth Century, and we have seen the result of it. Ever since the Sixteenth Century there have been springing up religion upon religion, and churches upon churches, all fighting and quarreling with one another. And all because of private interpretation of the Bible.

Christ sent His Apostles with the authority to teach all nations, and never gave them any command of writing the Bible. And the Apostles went forth and preached everywhere, and planted the Church of God throughout the earth, but never thought of writing.

The first word written was by St. Matthew (a Catholic), and he wrote for the benefit of a few individuals. He wrote the Gospel about seven years after Christ left this earth, so that the Church of God, established by Christ, existed seven years before a line was written of the New Testament.

St. Mark (also a Catholic) wrote about ten years after Christ left this earth; St. Luke (another Catholic) about twenty-five years, and St. John (still another Catholic) about sixty-three years after Christ had established the Church of God. St. John wrote the last portion of the Bible -- the Book of the Apocalypse (or Revelation as the Protestants call it) -- about sixty-five years after Christ had left this earth and the Church of God had been established. The Catholic religion had existed sixty-five years before the Bible was completed, before it was written.

There are now throughout the world three hundred and fifty different denominations or churches, and all of them say the Bible is their guide and teacher. And we'll suppose they are all sincere. Are all of them true churches? This is an impossibility. Truth is one as God is one, and there can be no contradiction. Every man in his senses sees that every one of them cannot be true, for they differ and contradict one another, and cannot, therefore, be all true. The Protestants say the man that reads the Bible right and prayerfully has Truth, and they all say that they read it right.

Let us suppose that here is an Episcopalian minister. He is (just for the sake of argument) a sincere, an honest, a well-meaning and prayerful man. He reads his Bible in a prayerful spirit, and from the Word of the Bible, he says it is clear that there must be bishops. For without bishops there can be no priests, without priests no Sacraments, and without Sacraments no Church. The Presbyterian is a sincere and well meaning man. He reads the Bible also, and deduces that there should be no bishops, but only presbyters. "Here is the Bible," says the Episcopalian; and "here is the Bible to give you a lie," says the Presbyterian. Yet both of them are prayerful and well-meaning men.

Then the Baptist comes in. He is (again for the sake of argument) a well-meaning, honest man, and prayerful also. "Well," says the Baptist, "have you ever been baptized?" "I was," says the Episcopalian, "when I was a baby."

"And so was I," says the Presbyterian, "when I was a baby." "But," says the Baptist, "you are going to Hell as sure as you live."

Next comes the Unitarian, (presumably) well-meaning, honest, and sincere. "Well," says the Unitarian, "allow me to tell you that you are a pack of idolaters. You worship a man for a God who is no God at all." And he gives several texts from the Bible to prove it, while the others are stopping their ears that they may not hear the blasphemies of the Unitarian. And they all contend that they have the true meaning of the Bible.

Next comes the Methodist, and he says, "My friends, have you got any religion at all?" "Of course we have," they say. "Did you ever feel religion," says the Methodist, "the Spirit of God moving within you?" "Nonsense," says the Presbyterian, "we are guided by our reason and judgment." "Well," says the Methodist, "if you have never felt religion, you never had it, and will go to Hell for eternity."

The Universalist next comes in, and hears them threatening one another with eternal hellfire. "Why," says he, "you are a strange set of people. Do you not understand the Word of God? There is no Hell at all. That idea is good enough to scare old women and children," and he proves it from the Bible.

Now comes in the Quaker. He urges them not to quarrel, and advises that they do not baptize at all. He is the sincerest of men (not really, but for argument's sake), and gives the Bible for his faith.

Another comes in and says: "Baptize the men and let the women alone. For the Bible says, 'unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.' So," says he, "the women are all right, but baptize the men."

Next comes in the Shaker, and says he: "You are a presumptuous people. Do you not know that the Bible tells you that you must work out your salvation in fear and trembling, and you do not tremble at all. By brethren, if you want to go to heaven shake, brother, shake!"

The Bible, my dear people, is a good book. We Catholics allow that the Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, and every Catholic is exhorted to read the Bible. But good as it is, the Bible, my dear friends, does not explain itself.

"I believe," says the Catholic, "because the Church teaches me so. I believe the Church because God has commanded me to believe her. He said: 'Hear the Church, and he that does not hear the Church let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican.' 'He that heareth you heareth Me,' said Christ, 'and he that despiseth you despiseth Me.'" Therefore, the Catholic believes because God has spoken, and upon the authority of God.

But our Protestant friends say, "We believe in the Bible." Very well; how do you understand the Bible? "Well," says the Protestant, "to the best of my opinion and judgment this is the meaning of the text." He is not sure of it, but to the best of his opinion and judgment. This, my friends, is only the testimony of a man -- it is only human faith, not Divine Faith.

It is Divine Faith alone by which we give honor and glory to God, by which we adore His infinite wisdom and veracity, and that adoration and worship is necessary for salvation.

I have now proved to you that the private interpretation of the Scripture cannot be the guide or teacher of man. In another lecture I shall prove that the Catholic Church is the only true Church of God, and that there is no other: outside of which there is no salvation.

(This Sermon is Public Domain and available for all who seek truth)
They weren't "Catholics" They were "catholic" or universal in that they were all in agreement. The Catholic Church, Like the EOC came into existence later.

It is the Bible that leads to uniting in the one Church or Congregation/Ekklesia.

Oh, the Bible does explain itself, it is men who mess the explanations up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2013, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,576 posts, read 7,032,650 times
Reputation: 1607
Interesting. The ONE thing that Jesus promised to "guide into all truth" is not on the radar here. Why?



Because nobody trusts Jesus' promise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2013, 07:27 PM
 
16,112 posts, read 9,314,611 times
Reputation: 7214
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Interesting. The ONE thing that Jesus promised to "guide into all truth" is not on the radar here. Why?



Because nobody trusts Jesus' promise.
Uh, what led the writing of the Bible and what did Jesus and the Apostles point as the best place to find answers? Try Jesus' answers to Satan in Matt 4.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2013, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,576 posts, read 7,032,650 times
Reputation: 1607
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Uh, what led the writing of the Bible and what did Jesus and the Apostles point as the best place to find answers? Try Jesus' answers to Satan in Matt 4.
So, what happens" people who wish to make the Bible the authority reduce the Spirit to helping us understand it just a the OP would have it merely guiding the leadership of the man made institution he calls "the Church."

I think there is more to Jesus' promise than THAT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2013, 05:43 AM
 
7,878 posts, read 6,686,655 times
Reputation: 1374
Jesus said from Matthew 13:37-43.................``He that sowed the good seed is the Son of Man .........The field is the world , and the good seed are the children of the kingdom , but the tares are the children of the wicked one, .........The enemy that sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the world , and the reapers are the angels ..........As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fires, so will it be in the end of the world ...........The Son of Man will send forth His angels , and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend , and them which do iniquity ...........And will cast them into a furnace of fire there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth ..........Then will the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father Who has ears to hear let them hear ...``..................See there may be many interpretation of the scriptures as believers believe different understandings , BUT Jesus makes it clear to leave them alone , and He will judge all errors in the end at the harvest of souls .....All believers can do is tell them the truth as they know it and pray for their souls
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2013, 08:24 AM
 
8,827 posts, read 6,314,932 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
They weren't "Catholics" They were "catholic" or universal in that they were all in agreement. The Catholic Church, Like the EOC came into existence later.

It is the Bible that leads to uniting in the one Church or Congregation/Ekklesia.

Oh, the Bible does explain itself, it is men who mess the explanations up.
Where there is Jesus there is the Catholic Church goes back to at least 107 AD. The canon of the NT was not completed or recognized at that time.

The Church was united with the Nicene Creed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2013, 08:25 AM
 
8,827 posts, read 6,314,932 times
Reputation: 2353
Modern Fundamentalists follow Paul rather than Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2013, 08:54 AM
 
9 posts, read 9,017 times
Reputation: 11
Most disturbing is a mindset that relegates The Holy Bible's status to a lesser status than a church. Or, to say it another way, to elevate any church above The Holy Bible. Certainly, it can be argued man has made a mess of it, however, the core of Christianity, God incarnate-Jesus Christ, came, walked amongst man, and died that all we who believe and put our faith in him may have eternal life. That is the Good News, the message that all need to hear-not go to XYZ church for salvation. A church can only exhort you, guide you, even push you, but ultimately salvation is up to and between you and God Almighty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2013, 08:57 AM
 
9 posts, read 9,017 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Modern Fundamentalists follow Paul rather than Jesus.
I find that statement incredulous as Pope Francis’ adoration of Saint Paul reflected in the small excerpts below:

June 14, 2013- Pope Francis reflected on the humility of the Apostle Paul in his homily during the Mass celebrated at Domus Sanctae Marthae this morning.

Pope Francis' Homily on the Solemnity of Sts. Peter & Paul
Jun 30, 2013 ... Here is a translation of the Holy Father's homily for the Solemnity of Sts. Peter & Paul which was celebrated on Saturday in St. Peter's Basilica.

Pope Francis' Homily on the Feast of Saint Ignatius
Jul 31, 2013 ... Here is a translation of the homily given by Pope Francis this morning ... Let us look at Saint Paul's experience, which is also the experience of ...

Oct 4, 2013 ... Pope's Address at Site Where St. Francis Embraced Lady Poverty. We read this in Saint Paul:

Pope Francis' Homily at Inauguration of Petrine Ministry Mass ...
Mar 19, 2013 ... Here is the translation of Pope Francis' homily at the Inauguration of the ... In the second reading, Saint Paul speaks of Abraham, who, “hoping ...

Oct 29, 2013 ... During his morning Mass at Casa Santa Marta today, Pope Francis reflected ... Speaks on St. Paul's Letter to the Romans During Morning Mass.

Pope Francis' Homily at the Mass of the 184th General Chapter of ...
Aug 29, 2013 ... Pope Francis' Homily at the Mass of the 184th General Chapter of the ... Augustine lives that which Saint Paul tells Timothy and every one of us: ...

Pope Francis: 'Love of God and Neighbor Heals You of Idolatry and ...
Oct 15, 2013 ... This was the theme of Pope Francis' homily this morning during Mass in the Chapel of Casa Santa Marta. St. Paul's first reading, spoke of those ...

Father Cantalamessa on the Mystery of the Incarnation ...
5 days ago ... Francis of Assisi is placed in the line of Saint Paul. More than on the ontological reality of the humanity of Christ (in which he believed firmly with ...

Pope: Love Of Money Gives Rise to Evils of Pride and Vanity
Sep 20, 2013 ... Pope Francis underlined St. Paul's warning on the dangers of one's love for money during today's homily at morning Mass. The Holy Father ...

Pope Francis' Homily at Mass for Marian Day
Oct 13, 2013 ... In the passage from Saint Paul which we have heard, the Apostle tells his disciple Timothy: Remember Jesus Christ: if we persevere with him, ...

Francis' Homily at Cathedral of St. John Lateran
Apr 8, 2013 ... Here is a Vatican translation of the homily given by Pope Francis on Sunday ... Remember what Saint Paul says: "What shall I boast of, if not my ...

Pope Francis: The Path to Sanctification Must Be Taken Seriously ...
Oct 24, 2013 ... Pope Francis reflected on the first reading from the Letter to the ... Saint Paul, he said, explains redemption “with the logic of before and after: ...

Francis' Address to Circle of St. Peter
Oct 31, 2013 ... Today the Holy Father received in audience members of Saint ... may guide and sustain you, and to the intercession of Saints Peter and Paul.

Last edited by H E Manning; 12-25-2013 at 10:00 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top