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I have answered it in many different ways, starting with post #4 and later the discussion about the parable of the vine yard was added to it, although from a different angle. Both stories talk about believers. Luke 13 talks about Jews, gentiles, rich, poor, influential, non-influential. Some people who are last in earthly standards will be with the nobles in heaven. Think about Lazarus, a beggar, who was with Abraham in hades. Earthly ranks will be meaningless after we are dead, the only thing which will matter is our relationship with Christ.
No you didn't, I was asking about Luke 13 verses 25-30. Who are the last which shall be first and the first which shall be last in this passage? Do you deny that they represent both those inside and outside of the kingdom in verses 25-28? No other distinction of jew/gentile, rich/poor is made in this passage. Just those inside, and those outside. So once more, do the last which shall be first, and the first which shall be last represent both those inside of the kingdom and those outside according to verses 25-30?
There are only Jews and non-Jews aka gentiles. There is no third kind of people. Based on your comment I don't think you have even read what I have written.
So if You believe it is saying the Jews are those employed at the first hour and the gentile the last, who are those employed at the 3 other times of the day ?. Jews or Gentiles? Or are you saying it is irrelevant?.
I hope you know Jesus wasn't just throwing the stuff in between just to make a point about the first and last. Believe me the hours of the day are telling us something too.
There are only Jews and non-Jews aka gentiles. There is no third kind of people. Based on your comment I don't think you have even read what I have written.
Your belief that it is talking about Jews and Gentiles is blind siding you. You do understand from what you are saying,is that ALL the Jews worked and the Gentiles worked too, and the ones in between employed at different hours were either Jew or Gentile. You're also assuming that workers mentioned represent a portion of the whole, I can understand that though when you try and understand a parable by literal thinking, the exact opposite way they were to be understood.
Luk 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
All the ETers and the Annihilationists don't teach that bolded part. They teach only some will be made straight.
Symbolic unless you believe the earth will be a round ball covered by water, which is what would happen if "every valley ..." etc.
Is anyone willing to give it a shot to say who they think the workers are and who the first and last are ?.
At five different hours of the day the workers were hired, obviously the early morning hour were the first and the ones in the 11th hour were the last.
The hours of the day are key to understanding the parable.
The woorkers are those who show up for work. They come at all times through the ages and some still come today. One day the work will be finished and the wage paid.
Those who don't come or don't work, etc, get no wage when that time comes except.
The context of Jesus' words? The previous verse ... "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the prince of this world be cast out." And then... "I, if I be lifted up, will drawall to myself." Do you believe this context indicates a narrower understanding of the word "world" then the "all" who inhabit it? If so, why?
The context of the verse, the context of the subject throughout scripture. Both have to be considered. This discussion stated with Luke 13 which says in part
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Thus we KNOW not all will be saved because not all will show up as it were for "work".
The "all" in context is all those drawn TO Him. Then according to Scripture they also must "work". Even some drawn will not work.
Matt 25 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The many drawn by the idea of salvation will seek to enter but will not be able. It is called choice.
So if You believe it is saying the Jews are those employed at the first hour and the gentile the last, who are those employed at the 3 other times of the day ?. Jews or Gentiles? Or are you saying it is irrelevant?.
I hope you know Jesus wasn't just throwing the stuff in between just to make a point about the first and last. Believe me the hours of the day are telling us something too.
Like I said, you are not reading what people post. What did I say about Peter and the apostles? What did I say about the thief on the cross? I never said something it irrelevant, I said I like to stick to the core message. You'd rather talk (well, you are not saying anything) non-core issues about what five o'clock, or noon represents, and although it can be entertaining to compare notes and/or other people's notes about it, it is not the core message, and it always boils down to speculation, where everyone wants to be right, much like everyone having an opinion about what the symbolism in book of Revelations means. If you don't want to share your view about the times, then don't, but it is fairly silly to sit in the sidelines and demand others to make off-topic posts. If you want to talk about the hours, then talk. The floor is yours.
Your belief that it is talking about Jews and Gentiles is blind siding you. You do understand from what you are saying,is that ALL the Jews worked and the Gentiles worked too, and the ones in between employed at different hours were either Jew or Gentile. You're also assuming that workers mentioned represent a portion of the whole, I can understand that though when you try and understand a parable by literal thinking, the exact opposite way they were to be understood.
Obviously you have not read what I have written.
Don't try to understand the parable literally. Maybe that is where your confusion stems from.
The woorkers are those who show up for work. They come at all times through the ages and some still come today. One day the work will be finished and the wage paid.
Those who don't come or don't work, etc, get no wage when that time comes except.
You among others here, refuse to admit that the last which shall be first, and the first which shall be last represent BOTH those inside of the kingdom and those weeping outside of the kingdom according to Luke 13:25-30. Cause then you would have to deal with the fact that BOTH the last which shall be first, and the first which shall be last are received by God, but at different times according to Matthew 20:1-16.
Symbolic unless you believe the earth will be a round ball covered by water, which is what would happen if "every valley ..." etc.
Metaphoric (if you will). Meaning that all the wicked people will have to be made straight (not wicked) in due time.
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