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Old 12-31-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Over in the Religion forum, one thread is discussing if Jesus qualifies as the Jewish Messiah. This post appeared:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17 View Post
Jesus is the son of my god the All-Fire who has revealed him/herself to me.
We are to follow his teachings of peace and love.

Jesus is not the son of Yahweh.
Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah.

I believe that since the people he was preaching to where Jewish that many assumed he was the child of their god, but he was not.

His father and Yahweh have two very distinct personalities and I believe very strongly they are two different gods.
In my opinion Yahweh is an evil god because he commanded acts of genocide against people who didn't worship him, while The Father is a god of love and peace. The New Testament authors where simply confused and thought he was the Jewish Messiah.

Do any of you agree with this?

I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
Well, since I believe the God of the Old Testament to be the same individual as the God of the New Testament, I can't really say that one is nicer than the other.

As to whether Christians worship the same God as the Jews, I'd say, yes. We Christians just believe He gave us His Son to atone for our sins, while the Jews don't.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Over in the Religion forum, one thread is discussing if Jesus qualifies as the Jewish Messiah. This post appeared:




Do any of you agree with this?

I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
No, as the God of Israel is not a triune God, but a singular God, with a Son, only begotten.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Over in the Religion forum, one thread is discussing if Jesus qualifies as the Jewish Messiah. This post appeared:

Do any of you agree with this?

I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
No, the Christian does not.
Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first.
Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:28 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 1,760,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Over in the Religion forum, one thread is discussing if Jesus qualifies as the Jewish Messiah. This post appeared:




Do any of you agree with this?

I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
Don't agree.. It's the old Gnostic heresy repackaged.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


The invitation is sent out to all of Man.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 7:37-38
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


The water that He's talking about is the everlasting well of Life freely given by God by His Spirit to His underserving Creatures. The Lord is God the Alpha and Omega beginning and the end.

Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Revelation 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


John 5:24-25

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


JESUS called Lazarus forth one day. One day He is going to call all of us forth to give an account. He will either be our Savior unto life or our Judge unto Damnation.

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


John 5
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

When JESUS speaks, we are hearing YHVH GOD speak.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:06 PM
 
12,877 posts, read 6,948,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Over in the Religion forum, one thread is discussing if Jesus qualifies as the Jewish Messiah. This post appeared:




Do any of you agree with this?

I always thought you Christians believe you worship the same God as the Jews, but this poster seems to disagree. I think he has a point when he says the God of the New Testament appears to be much nicer than the God of the Old Testament.
The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are one and the same. Most Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but many Jews do. They are called Messianic Jews. The time is coming when all Israel will acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah.

And both God the Father and Jesus Christ are called Yahweh. Zechariah 14:3-5 speaks of Jesus who is called Yahweh. It is Jesus who will return and set foot on the Mount of Olives.
Zech. 14:3 Then the LORD (Yahweh) will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4] In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5] You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD (Yahweh), my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
Compare Zechariah 14:3-5 with Revelation 19:11-21. They speak of the same event and of the same Person of the Godhead.

The name Yahweh applies to any one of the three Persons of the Godhead.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:14 PM
Status: "Status edited!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are one and the same. .
Yes.

Anyone who says different is saying in effect that the God of the OT did not create the Universe. Or at best God, who is referenced in the NT, did not create the Universe since the God who is referenced in the OT did, in fact, create the Universe.

And... God of whom Jesus spoke of is...well, the God of the OT. Simple observation: Jesus cited the OT more than once.

To sum it up, saying God as referenced in the OT is not the same fellow as the One referenced in the NT does create (artificially) some very difficult theological problems. UR folk and Mystic, please note.

Not just my opinion.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,910 posts, read 1,822,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
To sum it up, saying God as referenced in the OT is not the same fellow as the One referenced in the NT does create (artificially) some very difficult theological problems.
I think it would make the theology simpler.

If you believed the NT God is different than the OT God, then you could ignore the OT God the same way you ignore Zeus, Osiris, or Apollo.

You wouldn't have to rationalize the chapters (like Numbers 31) of the OT where that God tells his followers to commit atrocities.

You could say all of the people in ancient times (Greeks, Jews, Egyptians) simply misunderstood what God wanted them to do, and Jesus was the first one to get it right.

Sounds pretty simple to me.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:20 PM
 
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To those of you who assert they are the same god then how do you justify the evil carried out in the Old Testament? Mass Genocide was commanded at the hands of Yahweh.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:30 PM
 
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The God of the OT is the God of immorality, jealousy and terrorism. And Jesus performed miracles on his behalf.
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