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Stubborn. That's a word I would consider as to those who still do not believe, after all the scientific proof (yes, I said "scientific proof" that a global flood occurred.
Rather than accept the man who has been there and done that from the link above, all they do is make fun of, or blather on as if nothing was proved at all. That's called stubborn.
The Black sea flood is indeed valid archaeological evidence for a rising of the oceans causing a flooding of a huge area of the Black sea locality and indeed other areas. This at best only argues against the Noachian flood, as it is not entirely submerging the land, does not extinguish anything like all creation, only explains why there are so many flood legends and actually, the Biblical is not one of them, owing more to the unrelated Mesopotamian Ark -story.
And it has no possible element of mountains shooting up in a month or two, as your explanation demands. You haven't even begun to think this through my dear chap.
Interesting that Ballard never once attributes any flood to RAIN.
Did he have to mention rain? If he said he watched the Super Bowl, would he have to mention football for you to know what he saw?
Quote:
Noah's Ark is cute, but obviously will never be anything but a babyish fairy tale. Here's one of the most (historically) accurate depictions of it:
It's really not that accurate.
God didn't speak English.
There were 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals taken on the ark, not just two of each.
Noah may not have looked like Papa Smurf.
Noah and family didn't speak English.
The music in the video is not like what they played back then. Maybe if they played Metallica or Steve Vai type of music that would have been more in line with what they played back then.
It didn't rain a month and one week. That would have only been between 37 and 36 days. It rained 40 days.
The historic account of the historic world-wide flood was never taken as a babyish faery tale by the Israelites.
The Black sea flood is indeed valid archaeological evidence for a rising of the oceans causing a flooding of a huge area of the Black sea locality and indeed other areas. This at best only argues against the Noachian flood, as it is not entirely submerging the land, does not extinguish anything like all creation, only explains why there are so many flood legends and actually, the Biblical is not one of them, owing more to the unrelated Mesopotamian Ark -story.
And it has no possible element of mountains shooting up in a month or two, as your explanation demands. You haven't even begun to think this through my dear chap.
Who said there was even a "Black Sea" in the days of Noah?
There are flood legends all over the world because each nation was originally founded by those related to those that came off the ark and only those. The ones who remained faithful to God kept the original true account of what occurred.
The Mesopotamian Ark story is the result of being written many years after the flood by offspring of those who came off the ark. They rewrote the story, not to be accurate as to what actually occurred but to conform to their current ideology so that the Mesopotamians would worship their made-up gods.
Just look at the Muslims. They have re-written things concerning the Bible as did Joseph Smith. Two or three thousand years from now, are people going to say Smith and Muslims got the story right? Probably.
I'm going to show a portion of a theory that I have read about. The authors of this theory are quite adept with orbital mechanics. I will begin with the calendar, and eventually show how I believe Noah's Flood took place. Many of you will poo-poo this, but to others of you, you will see how scientifically plausible the whole Flood epic really is, and how it explains many questions relating to today and the ancient times.
In ancient times, at least 15 societies used a 360 day calendar. They also used a 30 day lunar calendar. This is almost completely insane with our modern knowledge of the solar system and orbital mechanics. We are on an approximate 365 1/4 day solar year, and a 29.5 day lunar month. Yet people all throughout the world of the ancients used this 360 day year, and never tried to change, alter, or try to coordinate it with a 365+ day year. This means one of two things. Either they were all living under a calendar system that was not logical, and wouldn't work, or the earth actually WAS under a 360 day solar year.
Going back in history, the time that the ancients began to look for a better method of calculating the calendars began near 700 BC. It is interesting to note a 1st Century Roman mathematical philosopher named Plutarch. He said that at the end of the 'heroic age', also known as the 'catastrophic age',, a dangerous game was played between Hermes, the Earth, and the Moon. Plutarch said that during this game, the Moon lost 1/70th of its holdings or its period, while the “winner,” the Earth gained a similar 1/70th of its day count per orbit, an addition to its former orbit period. By this reckoning, Plutarch was within .04 of a day of the change from the old calendars to the new. If we account for the possibility that the word "Ares' was incorrectly translated 'Hermes', we have a clue to the mystery. Ares in Roman literature is Mars.
The theory proposes that Mars, during that ancient period, was a planet that did not have its present orbit of some 120+ million miles from the sun, but was in a greatly elliptical orbit which would carry it from a distance of 225+ million miles from the sun to a perigee of close to 60 million miles. This would have given Mars an orbit of exactly twice the orbit of earth if the earth had a yearly orbit of 360 days. The authors of this theory have worked out all the orbital mechanics of not only the Earth, Moon, and Mars, but also the orbits of Jupiter and Venus, as they would have come under the effects of this change in orbital energy.
In short, Mars' orbit would have made it possible for Mars to pass over the orbit of the Earth every 2 years, twice. Once on it's way to the perigee, and once on its way out from the Sun. These passes would occur 6 months apart, every two years. These orbital passes would have been frightening to humans, but usually not dangerous, but every 108 years, the planets would have come close enough to cause many fearful and catastrophic things, such as major tidal changes, major earthquakes, and magnetic discharges between the planets themselves. Calculating backwards from our day, indeed the transfer of energies of these passes DO work out accurately, and they explain a number of historical occurrences. In the year 701 BC, Mars would have passed closely by the Earth for the last time, at a distance of some 20,000 miles, close to but not at the Roche Limit, which would have caused the planets to fracture and disintegrate. The associated forces would have pulled the Earth outward, changed its spin slightly, and pulled the Moon a bit closer to the Earth, changing its orbit from 30 days to 29.5+ days. Mars would then have lost a portion of its energy, and it would have slowed so that it would not have enough energy to reach its outer most orbital position, and would have settled into its modern orbit of some 687 days.
There are many other interesting things given in this theory, and I will give the link to this so you can read it for yourself.
Now, getting back to Noah's Flood, this theory shows that at the onset of Noah's Flood, Mars was passing very close to the Earth, and the Earth, being in a different atmospheric configuration along the lines of a planet with a large amount of water in its atmosphere, the resulting magnetic and tidal occurrences would have caused the 'fountains of the deep' within the earth to fracture, sending huge amounts of water to the surface, and also would have destroyed the balance of water vapor held in the atmosphere. In essence, it would have cause a massive condensation to begin. As Mars passed by, the gravitational forces would have easily lifted the mountains from the tip of South America to the southern tip of New Zealand, which, of you examine on a globe, are in what is close to a straight line. This uplifting of the mountains on a planetary magnetic scale would easily be done in minutes for each mountain chain. As the Flood commenced, there would be a tremendous amount of violent releases of water and volcanic material, causing an unimaginable event. The almost instantaneous freezing of the Mammoths near the polar zones are also explained by this theory. You'll have to read the book to find out why... Mars would then have proceeded around the Sun, only to return again for another engagement 6 months later. On this close flyby, Mars would have been close enough to lift the Himalayas and onward to the Alps, where Mars would have lost it's grip on Earth and continued on with a smaller amount of energy, and would have settled into its present day orbit, never again to return close to the Earth.
Rather than off-handedly rejecting this theory, I have read the whole thing, and wish that anyone else that is interested do likewise. And instead of saying that it is crazy, or not feasible, I would wish that someone that knows orbital mechanics plug the author's figures into a computer model to prove if it is feasible.
This information comes from a book entitled, 'The Mars Earth Wars', by Patton and Windsor. It can be read for free online. Creationism.org has placed it there, and if some of you can choke down reading something freely offered by them, even though it is not written by them, then here it is: The Mars-Earth Wars, by Patten and Windsor
Last edited by trumpethim; 01-25-2014 at 07:03 PM..
I'm going to show a portion of a theory that I have read about. The authors of this theory are quite adept with orbital mechanics. I will begin with the calendar, and eventually show how I believe Noah's Flood took place. Many of you will poo-poo this, but to others of you, you will see how scientifically plausible the whole Flood epic really is, and how it explains many questions relating to today and the ancient times.
In ancient times, at least 15 societies used a 360 day calendar. They also used a 30 day lunar calendar. This is almost completely insane with our modern knowledge of the solar system and orbital mechanics. We are on an approximate 365 1/4 day solar year, and a 29.5 day lunar month. Yet people all throughout the world of the ancients used this 360 day year, and never tried to change, alter, or try to coordinate it with a 365+ day year. This means one of two things. Either they were all living under a calendar system that was not logical, and wouldn't work, or the earth actually WAS under a 360 day solar year.
Going back in history, the time that the ancients began to look for a better method of calculating the calendars began near 700 BC. It is interesting to note a 1st Century Roman mathematical philosopher named Plutarch. He said that at the end of the 'heroic age', also known as the 'catastrophic age',, a dangerous game was played between Hermes, the Earth, and the Moon. Plutarch said that during this game, the Moon lost 1/70th of its holdings or its period, while the “winner,” the Earth gained a similar 1/70th of its day count per orbit, an addition to its former orbit period. By this reckoning, Plutarch was within .04 of a day of the change from the old calendars to the new. If we account for the possibility that the word "Ares' was incorrectly translated 'Hermes', we have a clue to the mystery. Ares in Roman literature is Mars.
The theory proposes that Mars, during that ancient period, was a planet that did not have its present orbit of some 120+ million miles from the sun, but was in a greatly elliptical orbit which would carry it from a distance of 225+ million miles from the sun to a perigee of close to 60 million miles. This would have given Mars an orbit of exactly twice the orbit of earth if the earth had a yearly orbit of 360 days. The authors of this theory have worked out all the orbital mechanics of not only the Earth, Moon, and Mars, but also the orbits of Jupiter and Venus, as they would have come under the effects of this change in orbital energy.
In short, Mars' orbit would have made it possible for Mars to pass over the orbit of the Earth every 2 years, twice. Once on it's way to the perigee, and once on its way out from the Sun. These passes would occur 6 months apart, every two years. These orbital passes would have been frightening to humans, but usually not dangerous, but ever 108 years, the planets would have come close enough to cause many fearful and catastrophic things, such as major tidal changes, major earthquakes, and magnetic discharges between the planets themselves. Calculating backwards from our day, indeed the transfer of energies of these passes DO work out accurately, and they explain a number of historical occurrences. In the year 701 BC, Mars would have passed closely by the Earth for the last time, at a distance of some 20,000 miles, close to but not at the Roche Limit, which would have caused the planets to fracture and disintegrate. The associated forces would have pulled the Earth outward, changed its spin slightly, and pulled the Moon a bit closer to the Earth, changing its orbit from 30 days to 29.5+ days. Mars would then have lost a portion of its energy, and it would have slowed so that it would not have enough energy to reach its outer most orbital position, and would have settled into its modern orbit of some 687 days.
There are many other interesting things given in this theory, and I will give the link to this so you can read it for yourself.
Now, getting back to Noah's Flood, this theory shows that at the onset of Noah's Flood, Mars was passing very close to the Earth, and the Earth, being in a different atmospheric configuration along the lines of a planet with a large amount of water in its atmosphere, the resulting magnetic and tidal occurrences would have caused the 'fountains of the deep' within the earth to fracture, sending huge amounts of water to the surface, and also would have destroyed the balance of water vapor held in the atmosphere. In essence, it would have cause a massive condensation to begin. As Mars passed by, the gravitational forces would have easily lifted the mountains from the tip of South America to the southern tip of New Zealand, which, of you examine on a globe, are in what is close to a straight line. This uplifting of the mountains on a planetary magnetic scale would easily be done in minutes for each mountain chain. As the Flood commenced, there would be a tremendous amount of violent releases of water and volcanic material, causing an unimaginable event. The almost instantaneous freezing of the Mammoths near the polar zones are also explained by this theory. You'll have to read the book to find out why... Mars would then have proceeded around the Sun, only to return again for another engagement 6 months later. On this close flyby, Mars would have been close enough to lift the Himalayas and onward to the Alps, where Mars would have lost it's grip on Earth and continued on in it's orbit.
Rather than off-handedly rejecting this theory, I have read the whole thing, and wish that anyone else that is interested do likewise. And instead of saying that it is crazy, or not feasible, I would wish that someone that knows orbital mechanics plug the author's figures into a computer model to prove if it is feasible.
This information comes from a book entitled, 'The Mars Earth Wars', by Patton and Windsor. It can be read for free online. Creationism.org has placed it there, and if some of you can choke down reading something freely offered by them, even though it is not written by them, then here it is: The Mars-Earth Wars, by Patten and Windsor
Did he have to mention rain? If he said he watched the Super Bowl, would he have to mention football for you to know what he saw?
It's really not that accurate.
God didn't speak English.
There were 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean animals taken on the ark, not just two of each.
Noah may not have looked like Papa Smurf.
Noah and family didn't speak English.
The music in the video is not like what they played back then. Maybe if they played Metallica or Steve Vai type of music that would have been more in line with what they played back then.
It didn't rain a month and one week. That would have only been between 37 and 36 days. It rained 40 days.
The historic account of the historic world-wide flood was never taken as a babyish faery tale by the Israelites.
BAM!
There's nothing "historic" about some nut who worships another (imaginary) nut who is presumed to enjoy drowning children.
The "Great Flood" certainly must have been a field day for ol'Satan !
Wow, what a bumper crop of sinners he got that year!
And, y'know that must have been a pretty tough year, when both God and Satan were trying to getcha and drag you to hell! I never knew they played so well as a tag team.
Who said there was even a "Black Sea" in the days of Noah?
There are flood legends all over the world because each nation was originally founded by those related to those that came off the ark and only those. The ones who remained faithful to God kept the original true account of what occurred.
The Mesopotamian Ark story is the result of being written many years after the flood by offspring of those who came off the ark. They rewrote the story, not to be accurate as to what actually occurred but to conform to their current ideology so that the Mesopotamians would worship their made-up gods.
Just look at the Muslims. They have re-written things concerning the Bible as did Joseph Smith. Two or three thousand years from now, are people going to say Smith and Muslims got the story right? Probably.
The archaeology does, or at least the geological background. If you are going to say that has nothing to do with the Noah story, I agree. So why are you raising the Black sea flood archaeology at all?
Sorry. The mesopotamian legend is the basic creation story of the middle - east. The Biblical one was evidently derived from that. If you are going to say the original Sumerian tale was based on some oral tale from earlier survivors and adapted to reflect the local geography (which is another of your ad hoc explainings away of the unhelpful evidence based on nothing whatever) then we have absolutely no idea what the original flood was or who was in it, and that it was anything like the Noah story or involving sheep sacrificing Hebrews is stretching coincidence too far.
But you will say that Genesis contains the original story. That is what the debate is about (as distinct from what it should be about - whether the Ark has been found) whether it is at all credible in the Biblical form. Because if it isn't - and, despite your best efforts, you have failed to make any case other than dismiss all the evidence, because it conflicts with how the world had to be at the time in order to make it work - then the best explanation is that the Bible -writers lifted the old Babylonian myth and adapted it to make God the top bod and the flood all part of His Plan.
Which is pretty much nullified by a non - total Black sea flood as the one you were waving about as gospel -true archeology so long as it supported you (or so you hoped) and rejected out of hand ("Who said there was even a "Black Sea" in the days of Noah?" there wasn't -until the area got flooded) when it doesn't. I'm afraid, Eusebius old chum, you Noah nothing and apparently don't want to Noah.
Two or three hundred years from now, I trust that the beliefs of the Muslims, Mormons and others will be in the same receptacle as the Christian.
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I never knew they played so well as a tag team.