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....and then it all becomes based on ancient oral tradition...which if I recall is much more reliable than our "current oral Tradition," but its highly unlikely that its immune to telephone game-like exaggerations.
But then we have the True Believers who claim to hear the godly whispering directly, through some kind of neurotic/holy/tin can/string apparatus? Alexander Graham Bell would be proud.
Many of you ascribe too many human imperfections to God. I guess it is normal to see God with human glasses.
From a theology point of view God is pure perfection and has infinite goodness. The God of the OT is insecure, jealous, petty, demanding, cruel, etc. All those attributes are part of human imperfection. God is perfect!.
This is mythology derived from the truth, not the other way around. The Hebrew God had no imperfections, as He is the sole creator, whereas this presentation describes many gods that are fighting for survival, and are even mortal. The professor also gives a definition of Babel as Bab-el, the entrance to the gods, or entrance to heaven, but actually, Babel means 'confusion'.
Am I supposed to swallow this gobbledygook because it is presented as a probable connection to the way the Hebrews gained their thought on the origin of the earth and man, just because it is presented on a platform presented by a prestigious university?
Has anyone figured out that things only happen one way, and myths proceed from the ideas of people that exaggerate and don't understand, or have all of the information of the actual event?
Has anyone figured out that men naturally don't wish to come under any kind of guidance whatsoever, even oftentimes if that guidance is for their benefit? Has anyone figured out that men will therefore construct their own ideas so that an infinite God is reduced to a mold of their own making, and no longer so affects the will of man?
So what I have read over the last few pages is that the Bible is to be takedn as true, reliable (Oh, Peter 2...generally considered a fake...is our assurance) eyewitness...reported eyewitness at least, dubious 'mysteries' like that 'Genetic disk' (I agree - red flags on that I'll try to find out more. The condition, style, apparent purpose and lack of provenance gives one the collywobbles) and some stones with strata -marks in then presented as some kind of ancient knowledge proves that Noah could have steel-framed his ark.
Gentlemen, even if he could, it would still leak. read up on the 6 -mast clippers and how unseaworthy they were even with iron -framing. They had to be pumped constantly. And they never had to stay out on a global flood with the supposed load Noah had.
Oh yes, some accusations that this is all about us not wanting to be answerable to God. All we want is to know what is the case for a Biblical flood and a Noachian ark.
So far, I have to say the problems are immense, the source unreliable, the explanations unfounded, even if they explain, which they don't. They rather throw up more problems.
P.s
The Muisca peoples were of course pre -colombian, but that only means they were there until the Spanish arrived. That does not mean staggeringly ancient. Nor is stone -carving in itself problematical. The stone is not that hard. As was pointed out, it is not Lydite.
The 'problem for science' is in the subject matter. This object was supposed to have been found in Colombia by an Industrial designer named Jaime Gutierrez-Lega (though I noted that 'professor' had been added to his name in some of the sites) and Klaus Dona who is presenting this disk as part of a collection of unsolved mysteries, invited a mineraologist, Dr Vera Hammer to have a look at them.
She declared some to be fake on the basis of use of modern materials. She noted that the disk wan made of Quartz, feldspar and Mica, not Lydite at all. That of course does not make it a fake, but it does undermine claims that it
could only have been created by advanced technology. She declares that she never assigned a date let alone a culture (Muisca).
Klaus Dona has apparently dropped the claim that this artefact and others have been validated and dated by on the basis of the date of the rock.In fact, all that has been said (by Natural History museum of Vienna) is that they are fakes. Now, I am not claiming that opinion as proof of fakery, but it is proof that Klaus Dona's story is false.
The claim to date by the rock is nonsense. You cannot date an artefact by the rock it is made from. If it is organic, you can get a C14 date, but not from rock. That claim is nonsense.
It can be dated by strata and context, but there is none. It can be dated by style, perhaps.
Now, this isn't a question of shouting 'Fake' any time some evidence for Alien scientists turns up (because Friends, this is better evidence for UFO visitors in ancient times than it is for Noah being a metallurgist) but the fact is that all the claims have turned out to be nonsense (Like the Giant's causeway being artificial) no problem (like the Anti -Kytheria mechanism only being explainable as alien technology) arguable, like the Baghdad batteries. Claims based on a resemblance (like the chariot wheels in the red sea) and falsity, like the 'Old' ark sit and the new one seems to be looking dodgy. Irrelevant claims like the Black sea flod which only helps to disprove the Noachian flood, not validate it, and the claim of animals and marine fossils mixed in together, and I say again that, if that was the case, we would have heard all about it. All we have is the MacMurray Ankylosaurus which is surprising, but but hardly puts a global flood, let alone a Noachian one of all creation on the map.
Let's be clear about how little valid support the is for the Genesis -flood scenario and how much there is for Genesis being unworkable.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-01-2014 at 04:13 AM..
Being kind of an very interested observer of science in many places, I'm thinking that it may be interesting to have our antideluvian investigators pay attention to some Martian activities..;-).... Mars is slowly unveiling some of her secrets particularly the enticing discussion of water flowing on the planet. Curious if her 'Genesis' as well as bona-fide empirical investigation) could be written as ours and help shed some light on this Noachian problem...;-)...
The Mesopotamian flood stories concern the epics of Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis. In the Sumerian King List, it relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced. The Sumerian flood myth found in the Deluge tablet was the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the Divine Counsel to destroy humanity, in which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters.[2] In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood.[3]
Assyriologist George Smith translated the Babylonian account of the Great Flood in the 19th century. Further discoveries produced several versions of the Mesopotamian flood myth, with the account closest to that in Genesis 6–9 found in a 700 BCE Babylonian copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh. In this work, the hero, Gilgamesh, meets the immortal man Utnapishtim, and the latter describes how the god Ea instructed him to build a huge vessel in anticipation of a deity-created flood that would destroy the world. The vessel would save Utnapishtim, his family, his friends, and the animals.[4]
Atra-Hasis ("exceedingly wise") is the protagonist of an 18th century BC Akkadian epic recorded in various versions on clay tablets. The Atra-Hasis tablets include both a creation myth and a flood account, which is one of three surviving Babylonian deluge stories. The name "Atra-Hasis" also appears on one of the Sumerian king lists as king of Shuruppak in the times before a flood.
wiki
Being kind of an very interested observer of science in many places, I'm thinking that it may be interesting to have our antideluvian investigators pay attention to some Martian activities..;-).... Mars is slowly unveiling some of her secrets particularly the enticing discussion of water flowing on the planet. Curious if her 'Genesis' as well as bona-fide empirical investigation) could be written as ours and help shed some light on this Noachian problem...;-)...
Check out "The Mars Earth Wars" by D. Patton. It can be found online. Personally, I believe this is possibly the cause of the Flood, and the link as to why Mars had water but no longer does.
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