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Old 01-06-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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Could many end-timers misinterpreted the beasts of Revelation Chapter 13 for the antichrist? I read Revelation, and I could not find any mentioning about the antichrist. I learned that the beasts represent empires, not individuals. Daniel Chapter 7 can be used as reference.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
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I'm not so sure. They could be family members. Mine, not yours.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshopper_60619 View Post
Could many end-timers misinterpreted the beasts of Revelation Chapter 13 for the antichrist? I read Revelation, and I could not find any mentioning about the antichrist. I learned that the beasts represent empires, not individuals. Daniel Chapter 7 can be used as reference.
The term 'antichrist' is found only four times in Scripture. 1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3, and 2 John 7. John uses that term in 1 and 2 John not only regarding those who deny that Jesus is the Christ and who deny that He came in the flesh, but also for that world ruler who will come to power in the Tribulation in whom the spirit of antichrist is concentrated. Daniel refers to him as the prince who is to come in Daniel 9:26, and Paul calls him the man of lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. John does not use the term 'antichrist' in the Book of Revelation, but the first beast of Revelation 13 is that man of lawlessness to whom John referred as the 'antichrist' in 1 John 2:18.


Regarding the beasts.

Empires or kingdoms have kings. In Daniel chapter 7 the four beasts are four kings.
Daniel 7:17 'These great beasts, which are four in number are four kings who will arise from the earth.

Daniel 7:23 ''Thus he said: ''The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
Revelation 13:2 says that the beast comes out of the sea. The sea represents Gentile nations (See Rev. 17:15). In Daniel 9:26 the people of 'the prince who is to come' refers to the Roman people who are of course Gentiles. It was Rome which destroyed the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD. This 'prince who is to come', will be the head of the revived Roman Empire of the Tribulation.

In king Nebuchadnezzar's prophetic dream (Dan. 2:31-45) he was given a panoramic view of the four major world empires. The statue's head of gold represented Nebuchadnezzar as the king of the Babylonian Empire. The statue's breast and arms of gold represented the Medo-Persian Empire, the belly and thighs of bronze represented the Grecian Empire, and the legs of iron and its feet partly of iron and partly of clay represented the Roman Empire. The stone that was cut out without hands and which struck the statue on its feet partly of iron and partly of clay represent the Millennial kingdom which Jesus will establish when He returns at the end of the Tribulation. The ten toes on the feet of the statue represent the Roman Empire in its revived form during the Tribulation and which will be crushed when Christ returns. The beast - the prince who is to come - the man of lawlessness - the antichrist will be the head of that revived Roman Empire.
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Old 01-06-2014, 03:54 PM
 
9,981 posts, read 8,591,694 times
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The "sea" does not represent only Gentile nations. It represents ALL nations, exactly
as stated, including the modern-day apostate state which inappropriately calls itself "Israel",
that is actually composed of Gentiles who call themselves "Jews" but are not,
(see Revelation 2:9).
Also, Daniel 9:26 has absolutely nothing at all to do with Romans.
Please explain the "seventy weeks" prophecy recorded in Daniel 9.
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Old 01-06-2014, 07:08 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
The "sea" does not represent only Gentile nations. It represents ALL nations, exactly
as stated, including the modern-day apostate state which inappropriately calls itself "Israel",
that is actually composed of Gentiles who call themselves "Jews" but are not,
(see Revelation 2:9).
Also, Daniel 9:26 has absolutely nothing at all to do with Romans.
Please explain the "seventy weeks" prophecy recorded in Daniel 9.
In Revelation 13:1 the ten horns on the beast coming up out of the sea represents the revived Roman Empire just as the ten toes on the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's prophetic dream did - Daniel 2:31-45.

The beast has Gentile origins. Not a Jewish origin. The fourth beast of Daniel 7 represents the Roman Empire. This fourth beast has ten horns (Dan. 7:7) as does the beast in Revelation 13:1 which is the first of the two beasts mentioned in that chapter. The little horn in Daniel 7:8, 20 which comes up among the ten horns and who will speak out against the Most High (Dan. 7:25; Rev. 13:6) and will wear down the saints (Dan. 7:25) (reference to Israel; Rev. 12:13-17; 17:7) of the Highest One for a time, times, and half a time (3 1/2 years) during the Tribulation is the antichrist - the man of lawlessness - the prince who is to come.

By the way, the rather small horn in Daniel 8:9 comes out of Greece and is therefore not the little horn of Daniel 7:8 which comes out of Rome.


Regarding the 'sea'...
Excerpt:
his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land
That which he places his feet upon he demonstrates his authority over (Deu. Deu. 11:24). “The setting or planting of his feet on sea and land is the formal taking possession of both; or the formal expression of the purpose to do so.”2 And is δὲ [de] which often indicates an adversative relationship: but. Left is εὐώνυμον [euōnymon] : “Used by the Greeks as a euphemism for left, the left hand, the left side, as a replacement for ἀριστερός [aristeros] (left ) in opposition to the right, since omens on the left were regarded as unfortunate (Mtt. Mat. 20:21).”3 His right foot (the side of favor) is placed upon the sea but his left foot (the side of disfavor) is placed on the land. This is a literal depiction with a possibly additional secondary symbolism: (1) the sea and land depict the entire physical globe; and 2) the sea represents the Gentile nations (Rev. Rev. 13:1+; Rev. 17:15+) while the land may represent the Jewish nation as stewards of the Promised Land (Gen. Gen. 13:15; Lev. Lev. 25:10-28; Lev. 27:24; 2Chr. 2Chr. 10:7; Ps. Ps. 83:12; Joel Joel 1:6; Joel 3:2).4 The authority the angel represents is complete: both geopolitically and nationally (Ps. Ps. 2:8; Ps. 89:25; Zec. Zec. 9:10; Mtt. Mat. 28:18; Eph. Eph. 1:22). The placement of the disfavored foot upon the land, if the land is representative of Israel, may indicate that judgment will begin with the Jewish nation—those who have the greater revelation and responsibility (Rom. Rom. 2:9 cf. Mtt. Mat. 10:15; Luke Luke 12:47-48). See commentary on Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 13:11. See Divine Similarities. [Bolding mine]
Revelation 10:2 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

And Daniel 9:26 speaks of the destruction of the temple and of Jerusalem which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. That's a matter of historical fact. Daniel 9:26 prophesied both the death of Jesus and the destruction of the temple, both of which took place after the completion of the 69 weeks, and before the 70th week which is still future. Just as the first 69 weeks of the prophecy were literal weeks of years, so also will the 70th week be a literal week of years - 7 Years. The destruction of the temple took place in 70 AD. which is 37 or 40 years after the completion of the first 69 weeks of the prophecy, depending on whether Jesus was crucified in 30 or 33 AD.

Daniel's 70th week:
The Thomas Ice Collection

David Reagan


Furthermore, while the Jews have been partially gathered in Israel in unbelief, they ARE Jews. Not Gentiles.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:26 PM
 
63,812 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In Revelation 13:1 the ten horns on the beast coming up out of the sea represents the revived Roman Empire just as the ten toes on the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's prophetic dream did - Daniel 2:31-45.

The beast has Gentile origins. Not a Jewish origin. The fourth beast of Daniel 7 represents the Roman Empire. This fourth beast has ten horns (Dan. 7:7) as does the beast in Revelation 13:1 which is the first of the two beasts mentioned in that chapter. The little horn in Daniel 7:8, 20 which comes up among the ten horns and who will speak out against the Most High (Dan. 7:25; Rev. 13:6) and will wear down the saints (Dan. 7:25) (reference to Israel; Rev. 12:13-17; 17:7) of the Highest One for a time, times, and half a time (3 1/2 years) during the Tribulation is the antichrist - the man of lawlessness - the prince who is to come.

By the way, the rather small horn in Daniel 8:9 comes out of Greece and is therefore not the little horn of Daniel 7:8 which comes out of Rome.

Regarding the 'sea'...
Excerpt:
his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land
That which he places his feet upon he demonstrates his authority over (Deu. Deu. 11:24). “The setting or planting of his feet on sea and land is the formal taking possession of both; or the formal expression of the purpose to do so.”2 And is δὲ [de] which often indicates an adversative relationship: but. Left is εὐώνυμον [euōnymon] : “Used by the Greeks as a euphemism for left, the left hand, the left side, as a replacement for ἀριστερός [aristeros] (left ) in opposition to the right, since omens on the left were regarded as unfortunate (Mtt. Mat. 20:21).”3 His right foot (the side of favor) is placed upon the sea but his left foot (the side of disfavor) is placed on the land. This is a literal depiction with a possibly additional secondary symbolism: (1) the sea and land depict the entire physical globe; and 2) the sea represents the Gentile nations (Rev. Rev. 13:1+; Rev. 17:15+) while the land may represent the Jewish nation as stewards of the Promised Land (Gen. Gen. 13:15; Lev. Lev. 25:10-28; Lev. 27:24; 2Chr. 2Chr. 10:7; Ps. Ps. 83:12; Joel Joel 1:6; Joel 3:2).4 The authority the angel represents is complete: both geopolitically and nationally (Ps. Ps. 2:8; Ps. 89:25; Zec. Zec. 9:10; Mtt. Mat. 28:18; Eph. Eph. 1:22). The placement of the disfavored foot upon the land, if the land is representative of Israel, may indicate that judgment will begin with the Jewish nation—those who have the greater revelation and responsibility (Rom. Rom. 2:9 cf. Mtt. Mat. 10:15; Luke Luke 12:47-48). See commentary on Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 13:11. See Divine Similarities. [Bolding mine]
Revelation 10:2 Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

And Daniel 9:26 speaks of the destruction of the temple and of Jerusalem which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. That's a matter of historical fact. Daniel 9:26 prophesied both the death of Jesus and the destruction of the temple, both of which took place after the completion of the 69 weeks, and before the 70th week which is still future. Just as the first 69 weeks of the prophecy were literal weeks of years, so also will the 70th week be a literal week of years - 7 Years. The destruction of the temple took place in 70 AD. which is 37 or 40 years after the completion of the first 69 weeks of the prophecy, depending on whether Jesus was crucified in 30 or 33 AD.

Daniel's 70th week:
The Thomas Ice Collection

David Reagan

Furthermore, while the Jews have been partially gathered in Israel in unbelief, they ARE Jews. Not Gentiles.
::Sigh:: So much speculation about such incomprehensible symbolism . . . what a waste.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
::Sigh:: So much speculation about such incomprehensible symbolism . . . what a waste.
Empty comments such as this one, devoid of any substance, are simply intended to be contentious. There is nothing incomprehensible about anything that I said.

Nor is there anything incomprehensible about the symbolism of the beast since the Bible clearly explains what the beast is.

Last edited by Michael Way; 01-06-2014 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:32 PM
 
7,413 posts, read 6,228,856 times
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I'm doing my daily Bible study in the Book of Revelation with Jerel Hagerman. He is very interesting, humorous and informative. I'm only on chapter 11 but will come back and comment on it when I get there.

The beasts, seals, antichrist, tribulation, illnesses during the end times and trumpets are explained in extraordinary detail so far. If anyone's interested in his verse by verse study:

Pastor Jerel Hagerman's Teachings - Joshua Springs Calvary Chapel

By far, he is the best teacher I have listened to and I have tried many to help walk me through the Bible. I give up because they are either boring or all over the place.

Also Revelation is the most intriguing book, especially for people who think it's a drag to study anything.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
I'm doing my daily Bible study in the Book of Revelation with Jerel Hagerman. He is very interesting, humorous and informative. I'm only on chapter 11 but will come back and comment on it when I get there.

The beasts, seals, antichrist, tribulation, illnesses during the end times and trumpets are explained in extraordinary detail so far. If anyone's interested in his verse by verse study:

Pastor Jerel Hagerman's Teachings - Joshua Springs Calvary Chapel

By far, he is the best teacher I have listened to and I have tried many to help walk me through the Bible. I give up because they are either boring or all over the place.

Also Revelation is the most intriguing book, especially for people who think it's a drag to study anything.
I'll check it out. Thanks for posting it.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:01 PM
 
9,981 posts, read 8,591,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Furthermore, while the Jews have been partially gathered in Israel in unbelief, they ARE Jews. Not Gentiles.
No, they are not "Jews" in the sense that those of the ancient Israelites who lived in Judea
were "Jews" then. The vast majority of them have no Israelite blood in them. They are
descendants of the Khazars, a South Central Asian kingdom which was converted to Judaism
by decree of the King, Bulan. There are many genetic studies and anthropologic studies
many done by "Jews" which prove it to be so.
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