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Old 12-29-2011, 11:30 AM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
The water baptism represents the "likness of His death". The spiritual baptism, on the other hand, represnts the actual inner being dying like Jesus.
Okay, lets begin there...

Can spiritual baptism occur without water baptism?

 
Old 12-29-2011, 11:35 AM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
Would also appreciate whether the OT Hebrews are saved.

Just thought of a unique hypo too which would help me understand your position. Let's assume, for the sake of argument only, that these debates over the past few days have caused me to doubt my own salvation for the first time in 10 years. I was baptized as an infant but now really feel compelled to be immersed as an adult. I ask my wife and local pastor (both immersed as adults) to baptize me in my favorite stream and in front of sone very close friends and family as witnesses, very similar to water baptisms in Acts. If I were to go through with that over the weekend, would I be assured of my salvation on Monday morning?
just so i understand... is this a question about baptism only or is this also referring to once saved always saved?

again... not being difficult... just wanting to understand so my answer is what you're looking for. Good question, by the way.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
just so i understand... is this a question about baptism only or is this also referring to once saved always saved?

again... not being difficult... just wanting to understand so my answer is what you're looking for. Good question, by the way.
You're not being difficult brotha. I am not looking for an answer on once saved, always saved - just whether a water baptism as described would save me and initiate a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
Okay, lets begin there...

Can spiritual baptism occur without water baptism?
I believe it does, yes.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 11:50 AM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
I believe it does, yes.
okay... well, then my question is i guess a variation of my first... if water baptism is "in the likeness of his death"

then how are we raised to walk in Newness of life in spiritual baptism?

Please understand my position... the water is not special. naaman dipped 7 times in nasty water and was cleansed.

also... the person baptizing is not doing it. i've baptized about 15 people... but I did nothing. Jesus saves. The Gospel saves.

I Cor. 15: 1-4 tell us what the Gospel is...

1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

and this is the likeness of his death.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 11:55 AM
 
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Maybe it would be best to hear the response to my hypo before I respond.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 12:06 PM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
You're not being difficult brotha. I am not looking for an answer on once saved, always saved - just whether a water baptism as described would save me and initiate a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
i am actually working on a pretty all-in-one paper on salvation, but i will give an answer to you here too.

but before i do... a story... i once saw a young boy be baptized because his friend did.

when the minister asked why he thought it was important to be baptized, he said, just because daryl is doing it.

that boy didn't understand the Gospel. i say that to say that there are many baptisms that people believe in. but "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Ephesians 4:3-6).

here's the actual answer to your question... took me long enough huh?

If you have heard the Gospel and believe, repent of your sins, confess Jesus as Lord, and are baptized for the remission of your sins, you have obeyed the gospel call. That must lead to a life of obedient faith.

If Noah, who believed in God, had heard God's command to build the ark and not done it... he'd have died.

I peter 3:20
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves younot the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Just as water was the dividing line between the old sinful world and Noah's salvation, now it is the dividing line between our old sinful man and our raising to walk in newness of life.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 12:07 PM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
Maybe it would be best to hear the response to my hypo before I respond.
i try to type two or three responses at once and i should just stick to one... but i can't help it. sorry... i got tabs open all up top of my web browser...
 
Old 12-29-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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"If you have heard the Gospel and believe, repent of your sins, confess Jesus as Lord, and are baptized for the remission of your sins, you have obeyed the gospel call. That must lead to a life of obedient faith."

I really appreciate the response. Part of the hypo, however, was asking whether all of the elements you see necessary for salvation (hearing/believing/repenting/confessing/baptizing) could be accomplished in my own local church (which has been a Vineyard for a long time)?


 
Old 12-29-2011, 12:41 PM
 
531 posts, read 354,610 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
"If you have heard the Gospel and believe, repent of your sins, confess Jesus as Lord, and are baptized for the remission of your sins, you have obeyed the gospel call. That must lead to a life of obedient faith."

I really appreciate the response. Part of the hypo, however, was asking whether all of the elements you see necessary for salvation (hearing/believing/repenting/confessing/baptizing) could be accomplished in my own local church (which has been a Vineyard for a long time)?


do you mean a part of the Vineyard movement? or you worship in a vineyard... don't laugh... the church isn't the building (im sure you agree) but again... people on these boards have strange beliefs. just clarifying...
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