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Old 12-29-2011, 01:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
do you mean a part of the Vineyard movement? or you worship in a vineyard... don't laugh... the church isn't the building (im sure you agree) but again... people on these boards have strange beliefs. just clarifying...
The Vineyard church. Vineyard International: Home

It's funny you should mention that. I know of one pastor who would get multiple phone calls asking about their selection of wines shortly after planting his church.

 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
Would also appreciate whether the OT Hebrews are saved.

Just thought of a unique hypo too which would help me understand your position. Let's assume, for the sake of argument only, that these debates over the past few days have caused me to doubt my own salvation for the first time in 10 years. I was baptized as an infant but now really feel compelled to be immersed as an adult. I ask my wife and local pastor (both immersed as adults) to baptize me in my favorite stream and in front of sone very close friends and family as witnesses, very similar to water baptisms in Acts. If I were to go through with that over the weekend, would I be assured of my salvation on Monday morning?
I hope you don't mind mind my butting in here, but I couldn't help but respond to the question you asked, "Would I be assured of my salvation on Monday morning?"

The answer is a resounding YES! Here's why. "He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation." Hebrews 5:9. There is no better assurance of salvation than this.

Katie
 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:48 PM
 
531 posts, read 362,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
"If you have heard the Gospel and believe, repent of your sins, confess Jesus as Lord, and are baptized for the remission of your sins, you have obeyed the gospel call. That must lead to a life of obedient faith."

I really appreciate the response. Part of the hypo, however, was asking whether all of the elements you see necessary for salvation (hearing/believing/repenting/confessing/baptizing) could be accomplished in my own local church (which has been a Vineyard for a long time)?


okay... Vineyard movement... gotcha.

now, i know the vineyard movement believes in baptism and the Lord's supper by the info on the website... but i'm needing more info...

Does the Vineyard believe that baptism is for the remission of sins?
 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:58 PM
 
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Nope. They place high emphasis on immersion baptisms as adults. However, they, like me, do not beileve that the sins are remitted on a water baptism.

The Vineyard Church > Baptism
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
I hope you don't mind mind my butting in here, but I couldn't help but respond to the question you asked, "Would I be assured of my salvation on Monday morning?"

The answer is a resounding YES! Here's why. "He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation." Hebrews 5:9. There is no better assurance of salvation than this.

Katie
Katie, of course I don't mind! I appreciate the reply.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
Nope. They place high emphasis on immersion baptisms as adults. However, they, like me, do not beileve that the sins are remitted on a water baptism.

The Vineyard Church > Baptism
Then we do not agree on the purpose of baptism.

"Baptism is not required to be a Christian; rather, people are baptized because they are Christians"

There is no scripture that supports this.
however...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. 46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.



In order for you to be a member of the Lord's Church, you must be added to it. How is one added to the Church?
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:36 PM
 
91 posts, read 59,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
Then we do not agree on the purpose of baptism.

"Baptism is not required to be a Christian; rather, people are baptized because they are Christians"

There is no scripture that supports this.
however...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles. 44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. 46 Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.



In order for you to be a member of the Lord's Church, you must be added to it. How is one added to the Church?
I am eager to hear it.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
I am eager to hear it.
well, i'm asking you how you are added to the Church...
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:41 PM
 
91 posts, read 59,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk View Post
well, i'm asking you how you are added to the Church...
You mean to the Vineyard?
 
Old 12-29-2011, 03:59 PM
 
531 posts, read 362,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish View Post
You mean to the Vineyard?
I have no idea how to get into the Vineyard church.

I admit that.

I'm talking about Christ's Church. The Church Christ established.

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.

and...

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

again... we are buried with Him in baptism, (not spiritual baptism) and raised with Him... a new creature. Our physical body has not changed one bit... we're wet... but that'll dry. we have been circumcised. but not with a circumcision made with hands...

clearly God adds those who are saved to the Church.

Therefore... you cannot be saved outside of Christ's body, the Church.

would you agree?
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