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I do want to share that one thing that was very encouraging and beneficial to me when I was a member of any of the congregations of the coChrist, was when the members met in each others' homes to fellowship, pray, sing songs, have Bible studies. It was a very good way to get to know each other and to build stronger relationships with the brothers and sisters. Just meeting to sing songs together was edifying even when we sang off key God bless.
That's awesome. My church has a similar philosophy in that small groups are where the stuff really happens.
[quote=atomtkirk;22358494]Don't misunderstand my point. I am speaking from a perspective that believes that all people can read and understand the bible the same way.
How is this possible?
You all believe fully that there is no scripture to support worship with musical instruments. I believe that there are scriptures that authorize musical instruments. Is this not a difference in scriptural interpretation?
Moreover, Paul clearly states that we are predestined. Yet, there are examples of faith which show free will. I can get you the verses for each if you like (just pressed on time). Scholars and great thinkers over the generations have been debating this issue. Do you agree that this is a difference in our interpretation of scriptures?
Don't misunderstand my point. I am speaking from a perspective that believes that all people can read and understand the bible the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomtkirk
How is this possible?
You all believe fully that there is no scripture to support worship with musical instruments. I believe that there are scriptures that authorize musical instruments. Is this not a difference in scriptural interpretation?
Moreover, Paul clearly states that we are predestined. Yet, there are examples of faith which show free will. I can get you the verses for each if you like (just pressed on time). Scholars and great thinkers over the generations have been debating this issue. Do you agree that this is a difference in our interpretation of scriptures?
People do not Understand the Bible differently sometimes they Misunderstand the Bible.
About being predestined, God predestined or Forsaw the Church not individual people otherwise that would contradict the majority of the New Testament. If thats the case we might as well throw the Bible away.
I missed one point. Where in the New Testament do you find Authority for Musical instuments.
We do not deny seeing it in the Old Testament, But we do not live under the Old testament.
The Old Testament Laws and regulations only applied to the Jews.
If we live by that then you and i {assuming you are not a Jew} Being gentiles have no hope.
I missed one point. Where in the New Testament do you find Authority for Musical instuments.
We do not deny seeing it in the Old Testament, But we do not live under the Old testament.
The Old Testament Laws and regulations only applied to the Jews.
If we live by that then you and i {assuming you are not a Jew} Being gentiles have no hope.
Responded to these questions earlier in the thread and several of your colleagues agreed to disagree with me on this issue. However, I will respond briefly.
Where do you see in the NT that there is authority specifically prohibiting the use of musical instruments? You are taking an absence of guidance and construing it as an outright prohibition.
I'd like to thank you for referencing the OT, though, here because I really was not done with that discussion. Do you believe that the OT comprises only the Old Covenant, or is there more?
Also, I'd like to again reference Paul's admonishment that all scripture is "God-breathed and useful for teaching . . . ." Do we agree that he was referring specifically to the Old Testament with this verse?
Last edited by joeyknish; 01-02-2012 at 09:38 AM..
You do NOT find anywhere that it Prohibits the use of mechanical instruments in worship in the new testament.
It just doesn't show us anywhere that they did.
Unlike the Old testament where it tells us that they played and sang or they played only or they sang only.
The reason i cannot do it is because i believe that we look for a Direct command, nessasary inference or approved example.
We don't have any of those in regard to mechanical instruments. The new testament is completly silent on the matter.
The old testament begins with the creation, mans fall into sin and then into Gods plan of how he would one day bring Christ to save everyone.
In his plan it appears he chose a people {jews} to bring his son through. The remainder of the old testament is a story about the Jewish people and God working his plan through them.
The new testament says that the old testament was their TUDOR to bring them to Christ.
God breathed and useful for teaching would cover all scripture, New and Old.
You do NOT find anywhere that it Prohibits the use of mechanical instruments in worship in the new testament.
It just doesn't show us anywhere that they did.
Unlike the Old testament where it tells us that they played and sang or they played only or they sang only.
The reason i cannot do it is because i believe that we look for a Direct command, nessasary inference or approved example.
We don't have any of those in regard to mechanical instruments. The new testament is completly silent on the matter.
The old testament begins with the creation, mans fall into sin and then into Gods plan of how he would one day bring Christ to save everyone.
In his plan it appears he chose a people {jews} to bring his son through. The remainder of the old testament is a story about the Jewish people and God working his plan through them.
The new testament says that the old testament was their TUDOR to bring them to Christ.
God breathed and useful for teaching would cover all scripture, New and Old.
Are we agreed then that the Book of Psalms is not part of the Old Covenant, unless you can direct me to a passage that shows God required this form of worship?
Last edited by joeyknish; 01-02-2012 at 11:01 AM..
You do NOT find anywhere that it Prohibits the use of mechanical instruments in worship in the new testament.
It just doesn't show us anywhere that they did.
Unlike the Old testament where it tells us that they played and sang or they played only or they sang only.
The reason i cannot do it is because i believe that we look for a Direct command, nessasary inference or approved example.
We don't have any of those in regard to mechanical instruments. The new testament is completly silent on the matter.
The old testament begins with the creation, mans fall into sin and then into Gods plan of how he would one day bring Christ to save everyone.
In his plan it appears he chose a people {jews} to bring his son through. The remainder of the old testament is a story about the Jewish people and God working his plan through them.
The new testament says that the old testament was their TUDOR to bring them to Christ.
God breathed and useful for teaching would cover all scripture, New and Old.
Let me ask you this: Jesus instructed the use of one prayer only. Is it appropriate to pray any other prayers at any time in life and/or during a church service?
Are we agreed then that the Book of Psalms is not part of the Old Covenant, unless you can direct me to a passage that shows God required this form of worship?
Yes, the psalms would be a part of the old testament.
From what i understand the book of psalms is a book of prayer and song to God from his people { it mentions David}
It did involve mechanical instruments.
The Bible says it does so i believe that.
If you look at Psalms 57 just as an example.
This was a prayer and song for deliverance in reference to the events in
1 sam 24: 1-3
All of the books in the Old Testament overlap each other as they are all carrying through the same story of the Jewish people.
I don't know of any passages that shows God required this form of worship
in the old testament.
Maybe something in Leviticus since that book deals mainly with the law of the Jews.
The point is we see it being done, unlike the new testament where we don't see it at all.
Let me ask you this: Jesus instructed the use of one prayer only. Is it appropriate to pray any other prayers at any time in life and/or during a church service?
Jesus instructed his people in the new testament to Pray about many things.
We are taught to pray for one another, for our enemies, for our government, for many other things.
If you are referring to Matt 6:9-13, This is a model prayer.
Jesus gives his diciples a discription of what a prayer should look like.
I read a good model prayer somewhere that goes like this.....
Dear God ,you are...
Dear God ,you have....
Dear God, thank you......
Dear God ,help me......
You fill in the blanks. That is the model that Christ gave them.
I also believe that the old testament is valuable for helping us learn to pray as well, especially the book of psalms.
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God bless.