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I'm talking about when it comes to formal worship of God. On Sundays with other saints.
I do not claim to praise and worship God with electric lights, and the internet as people praise and worship God with intruments.
New Testament wasn't complete then. But the Old Testament was. And Jesus said, have you not read, referring to the word of God. Matt 22:31...How am I to obey, if I don't read?
Sunday school is not mentioned, but 2 Tim 2:15 tells us to study to shew thyself approved. Sunday school is one of the places I study. Jimmy, I believe you are being facetious.
I'm simply stating what I believe. I place no judgement on anyone. But my duty as a Christian is to spread the word. If you don't agree, that's totally fine. I hate no one. And I respect everyone's beliefs, even if I disagree. I'm simply trying to provoke thought, not anger, or provoke anyone to be on the defense. I believe we are to speak where the bible speaks, and be silent where the bible is silent. Otherwise, it's an addition to God's word, which I believe is a sin. Who gives us authority to do what we want and expect God to accept it. He told us everything he wanted us to know through his word.
I promise I am just discussing this with you. No anger or hard feeling at all. I love to do this. I have been doing it on the internet since 1998.
I agree we should not add to the bible but we are not talking about doctrine here. But we are not given an outline of how to do "church". What we are both talking about is how the local church should conduct itself.
So should the local church own land? Own a building? Where do we see the NT church buying a building or land? The scripture does not tell us if we should go in debt or pay cash. But somehow we manage to do it even though we are not told to do so in scripture.
YOu mention the NT was not finished but you did not address where you get the idea you are to own a personal copy of the scripture. Jesus did not as far as scripture goes. So why would that be different?
(1) Do the four Gospels capture every detail of Jesus's life?
(2) Was Jesus Jewish?
(1.) No. John 20:25- And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they sould be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
My faith is strong enough to believe that everything God wanted me to know has been written, and is in the bible. Yes, I am aware of the dead sea scrolls, however God knows what he's doing. If he wanted us to have the dead sea scrolls and any other "lost" books, we would have them.
(2.) Good question. There is a difference between being Jewish, as in your blood line is Jew, and practicing Jewish religion. He was not a Jew, as in Jewish religion.
(1.) No. John 20:25- And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they sould be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
My faith is strong enough to believe that everything God wanted me to know has been written, and is in the bible. Yes, I am aware of the dead sea scrolls, however God knows what he's doing. If he wanted us to have the dead sea scrolls and any other "lost" books, we would have them.
(2.) Good question. There is a difference between being Jewish, as in your blood line is Jew, and practicing Jewish religion. He was not a Jew, as in Jewish religion.
(1.) No. John 20:25- And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they sould be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
My faith is strong enough to believe that everything God wanted me to know has been written, and is in the bible. Yes, I am aware of the dead sea scrolls, however God knows what he's doing. If he wanted us to have the dead sea scrolls and any other "lost" books, we would have them.
(2.) Good question. There is a difference between being Jewish, as in your blood line is Jew, and practicing Jewish religion. He was not a Jew, as in Jewish religion.
Oh I have to disagree with that last statement. Jesus was a Jew and practiced the Jewish faith. He came only to the Jews. Mt 15:24 “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Remember the reason Jesus came to earth: Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the [Mosaic] law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
How can He fulfill that which He did not practice?
(1.) No. John 20:25- And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they sould be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
My faith is strong enough to believe that everything God wanted me to know has been written, and is in the bible. Yes, I am aware of the dead sea scrolls, however God knows what he's doing. If he wanted us to have the dead sea scrolls and any other "lost" books, we would have them.
I am not suggesting that we supplement the four gospels with any other text(s). However, we must accept that the gospels show an incomplete, biograpy of Jesus. Therefore, it is at least possible that he played/praised God with an instrument.
(2.) Good question. There is a difference between being Jewish, as in your blood line is Jew, and practicing Jewish religion. He was not a Jew, as in Jewish religion.
He was both. He was in the line of David. Matthew 1:1-17. Also, he adhered to the law perfectly to the extent that he was able to fulfill it. "I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17. Therefore, Jesus was authorized to worship God with instruments. "All Your garments are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia;
Out of ivory palaces stringed instruments have made You glad." Psalm 45:8-9. Now, if we can accept that Jesus is God (John 1:1-3), then our worship of Jesus by instruments is unequivocally authorized as well. How could Jesus be permitted to worship God with an instrument if it would cause us to sin?
I was out driving around today (goinng to do some work related meeting) and I pass by a church with a huge sign that says something to the effect of "Come and let us adore Him Christmas Cantata Dec 24 6 PM" Funny thing was, the sign in front said "Church of Christ"
Now The COC people I knew way back when were anti Christmas...... And anti music, which is usually an integral part of a cantata.
I just completed a move to a new city over the summer. I had just mentioned yesterday that I need to find a catholic or Episcopal Church nearby like ASAP because Advent starts in a week, and I always need a place that has a good Midnight Mass. I have to say, I have never noticed a CoC Advertising a Christmas Service ever before.
Good news is being in a big city, I found a likely Episcopal high church to sneak into if need be for the next month.
I was born and raised CoC, and aside from a couple of (long) wanderings, have been there for 40 years. But have been questioning the doctrine more and more. First thing I did was set aside time to read the NT from start to finish.
Got to say, having trouble reconciling some the "obstacles to salvation" that my local church is throwing up, to the teachings of the apostles.
But, I'm a work in progress. We'll see where this journey leads. I was fascinated to find a 200-page discussion of this, and look forward to following all of your thoughts.
I was born and raised CoC, and aside from a couple of (long) wanderings, have been there for 40 years. But have been questioning the doctrine more and more. First thing I did was set aside time to read the NT from start to finish.
Got to say, having trouble reconciling some the "obstacles to salvation" that my local church is throwing up, to the teachings of the apostles.
But, I'm a work in progress. We'll see where this journey leads. I was fascinated to find a 200-page discussion of this, and look forward to following all of your thoughts.
"obstacles to salvation" ?????? how about OBSTABLCES TO REALITY!!!!???? or OBSTACLES TO LIFE!?!?!
I spent another Christmas Eve at Midnight Mass. A Short time afterwards, I came to the realization that had I still been married to someone in the Church of CHrist how I could have never enjoyed that Midnight Mass....or Christmas Morning......Or my family....etc In fact, had I still been remotely involved, how much I could have enjoyed Life itself!!!
This group you call the "church of Christ" in my experience, is not worth your time. I am not trying to converrt or prosyltize you here, but I want you to look at hte conditional love and the judgementalism and hypocrisy of this gorup and ask yourself if they are in your best innterest.....
I completely cut all ties to them years ago, and my life has been so much better since. I do not know if walking away will work for you, but I can tell you that it did for me.
mbatl..I hope you will read this thread there is so much here. I am a former member and my story is all through this thread so will not repeat it here, but just know that once the bonds of rules and rituals and submission were lifted from my shoulders I was able to see God/creator more clearly and have found peace. I am no part of man;s organized religions now and in the rw I only discuss my beliefs with my children and grandchildren when they ask.
I think we all need to seek the source of our belief within us where I truly believe the spirit of God is, and He is there to guide and direct us to the Creator.
Many people never try to find, feel look for His presence outside the walls of a building they call "MY Church" or outside of the book they call "My bible" Both are useful in the beginning of one's faith to introduce us to the teaching of Jesus of a loving God not the on in the OT. The Church of Christ talks and preaches the words of Paul more than they do the words of Christ, maybe it is because of the legalisms he taught the Corinthians and Ephesians and they apply that to todays world in order to place fear and control in the heart and mind of the congregations.
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