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Old 08-31-2009, 04:41 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,296,047 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttjones View Post
There must be water because, .
Must be water?
So there is no way to enter into Heaven unless you happened to be born in an area of the world with water , enough water, that was warm enough to dunk a full person underneath?

and that never-ever has anyone ever gone to heaven that was not dunked?

is that what you are saying?

 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:27 AM
 
15 posts, read 13,340 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
I agree baptism is very important but don't agree that it is what saves you. The blood is what saves and we contact the blood in a spiritual way not in the water. Finish out Mark if you will with "But he that believeth not shall be condemned nothing about the baptism. The baptism is not a commandment. Your correct about Luke to repent don't see anything about baptism. I am not positive but I don't never see anything referring to the immersion of the baptism being water as in H2O if im wrong in scripture please clear that up for me. I do believe the immersion he is referring to is the immersion into the Word of God aka Being Baptized into the Word of God.
Baptism for the remission of sins is most definitely a burial in water. Look at the Ethipian Eunuch in Acts 8:27-40. After Philip "preached unto him Jesus," he asked, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?.....and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,.."

When the Bible says something is for salvation, or we are to do it to be saved, then we MUST do it. If there were 20 things mentioned to be saved, I would do all 20.

Here's one way to put it: If 3 people in 3 different locations were traveling to FL, I would begin with different starting points when giving them directions. I would start at North GA giving one directions. One might already be in Atlanta, so I would start there for that person. One might be at the state line, so I would start there. So it is with salvation in the Bible. You must look at the whole context to see where the person is in the plan of salvation. Some had never heard about Christ, so the disciples would tell them to believe. Some had heard and believed, so they would tell them to repent and be baptized. Some had heard and believed, but never confessed Christ as God's Son, so they were told to confess, etc.

Start in reading in Matthew, and write down EVERY verse that says you must DO something to be saved. I am not talking about earning your salvation; we know that God's grace is a free gift to all that obey him. Then, look at what you have. Who are we to take even one aspect of that out of the Bible, and say one doesn't HAVE to do that to be saved if God or Christ said they do?

You are saying baptism isn't a command. Christ Jesus is saying it is, Mark 16:15-16; Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus told them there in Matthew that all power was given to him. HE tells them to teach and baptize, then teach those people to "OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU." He just got out of his mouth they were to baptize, and then said teach them ALL the things he had commanded them. Therefore, if the Apostles taught it, it is a command of Christ. If it's there, how can you refute it? What if I said you didn't have to confess Christ as Lord just because the verses you quote doesn't say you must? It doesn't negate that fact just because it is not in EVERY verse that discusses salvation.

Please understand I am not trying to be hateful or mean spirited. I just want desperately for you to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:33 AM
 
15 posts, read 13,340 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Must be water?
So there is no way to enter into Heaven unless you happened to be born in an area of the world with water , enough water, that was warm enough to dunk a full person underneath?

and that never-ever has anyone ever gone to heaven that was not dunked?

is that what you are saying?
There is NEVER a command of God that cannot be fulfilled. He wouldn't command something and then condemn one to Hell if they had no way to fulfill it. I have faith that he will provide, just as he promises he will. Now, read this and post #875 on page 88. It more than explains what the Bible is saying, not what I am saying. I only quote the Bible. It's not important what I think, but what the Bible says.

Also, why do you think the earth is made up more of water than land? It rains EVERWHERE on the earth, or God's creation wouldn't survive. Now, it rains more in some places than others. I would walk the soles of my feet off to get to anything God commanded.

Baptism for the remission of sins is most definitely a burial in water. Look at the Ethipian Eunuch in Acts 8:27-40. After Philip "preached unto him Jesus," he asked, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?.....and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,.."

When the Bible says something is for salvation, or we are to do it to be saved, then we MUST do it. If there were 20 things mentioned to be saved, I would do all 20.

Here's one way to put it: If 3 people in 3 different locations were traveling to FL, I would begin with different starting points when giving them directions. I would start at North GA giving one directions. One might already be in Atlanta, so I would start there for that person. One might be at the state line, so I would start there. So it is with salvation in the Bible. You must look at the whole context to see where the person is in the plan of salvation. Some had never heard about Christ, so the disciples would tell them to believe. Some had heard and believed, so they would tell them to repent and be baptized. Some had heard and believed, but never confessed Christ as God's Son, so they were told to confess, etc.

Start in reading in Matthew, and write down EVERY verse that says you must DO something to be saved. I am not talking about earning your salvation; we know that God's grace is a free gift to all that obey him. Then, look at what you have. Who are we to take even one aspect of that out of the Bible, and say one doesn't HAVE to do that to be saved if God or Christ said they do?

You are saying baptism isn't a command. Christ Jesus is saying it is, Mark 16:15-16; Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus told them there in Matthew that all power was given to him. HE tells them to teach and baptize, then teach those people to "OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU." He just got out of his mouth they were to baptize, and then said teach them ALL the things he had commanded them. Therefore, if the Apostles taught it, it is a command of Christ. If it's there, how can you refute it? What if I said you didn't have to confess Christ as Lord just because the verses you quote doesn't say you must? It doesn't negate that fact just because it is not in EVERY verse that discusses salvation.

Please understand I am not trying to be hateful or mean spirited. I just want desperately for you to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 10:20 AM
 
241 posts, read 237,418 times
Reputation: 36
Baptism not only washes away our sins, when done, it portrays the gospel of Christ (Rom. 6:3-6). If you want to be like Christ, then you have to do what he did and that includes baptism. But lets focus on the resurrection for a minute. Christianity is a Christians lifestyle and many people claim to be Christians. Don't you know that Christianity rests on the foundation of the resurrection of Christ? In 1 Cor. 15:14,17, it talks about how if Christ had not risen, then our preaching is vain and our faith is vain and we would be in our sins. So, without baptism, we couldn't be saved because there would be no remission of sins, no true Christian faith, and no Christianity. I just want to add one other thing when the bible mentions "save, saves, or saved". Rom. 8:24-for we are SAVED by HOPE, Eph. 2:8-for by GRACE are you SAVED through faith, and 1 Pt. 3:21-the like figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now SAVE us. How can someone say that you are saved by one of these and not the other? No one is saved particularly just by one thing, it is a combination of things. When you do one thing, you are doing something else. You just don't believe and be saved. You just don't be baptized and be saved. You just don't repent and be saved. I think I made my point.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 06:59 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,296,047 times
Reputation: 231
Here is a little thing to remember...

Take one drop of water.....just one little tiny drop of water.
Now hold this drop over a person's head....

You have fully placed that person "under" the water....fully under....nothing was left above the water...They are fully "baptized"


This fits with what i have always told people about the water of baptism...

The amount of water is moot.
Only the heart of the person is important.
If the heart of a person is not ready, then you could baptize them under all the water of all the seas and it would not matter a hoot.

However if the heart of the person is ready, then one drop of water is more than enough to baptize them.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 07:56 PM
 
241 posts, read 237,418 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Here is a little thing to remember...

Take one drop of water.....just one little tiny drop of water.
Now hold this drop over a person's head....

You have fully placed that person "under" the water....fully under....nothing was left above the water...They are fully "baptized"


This fits with what i have always told people about the water of baptism...

The amount of water is moot.
Only the heart of the person is important.
If the heart of a person is not ready, then you could baptize them under all the water of all the seas and it would not matter a hoot.

However if the heart of the person is ready, then one drop of water is more than enough to baptize them.
Very impossible. Everyone who was baptized in the bible were put UNDER the water or COMPLETELY COVERED. The entire body has to get wet. It is a burial. When you bury a person, do you put one grain of dirt on them and say they have been fully buried? No. Come on, be real about this, not hypothetical. If someone is not ready for baptism, I wouldn't baptize them at all.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 08:01 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,296,047 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher c. sr. View Post
tThe entire body has to get wet. .
Thus the reason there are no Christians at all in My peoples country of Norway.
Getting that wet only happens when you fall out of the boat..

(Oh and someone better bar the door to heaven from the thief on the cross)
 
Old 08-31-2009, 11:06 PM
 
241 posts, read 237,418 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Thus the reason there are no Christians at all in My peoples country of Norway.
Getting that wet only happens when you fall out of the boat..

(Oh and someone better bar the door to heaven from the thief on the cross)
Yep, someone better.
 
Old 09-07-2009, 09:34 AM
 
4 posts, read 6,760 times
Reputation: 10
I've been a member of the CofC for 21 years now. We went to various CofC and never did I feel out of place. The churches were always welcoming. The one we belong to now is very active in the community. We hold a very large free clothes give away every Tuesday. We give food to the community, and help out in anyway asked of us.

Just like any church, you will have people that are very "strict" in their beliefs. You are going to find that anywhere, not just in church. We don't have instruments in our church, and other churches do. I do not believe (and never was raised to believe) that people who play instruments will go to hell or are not "saved". To be honest, I question those who do believe that. No where in the Bible does it say that (NT or OT), and I am very hesitant to speak for God. We've always believed that we should follow the bible as close as we can, and when the day comes "Well done" is what we wish to hear.

By the way, I am a women, and never once was I EVER told not to speak.
 
Old 09-07-2009, 09:39 AM
 
4 posts, read 6,760 times
Reputation: 10
In Latin baptize means "immerse"
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