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Angel is the term for messenger of God . . . not some other tongue. Paul is simply saying that whether or not he speaks as a man or as the messenger of God . . . without love it is useless.
I understand perhaps why you think that but I don't agree. I understand that Angel can refer to a man as a messenger of God as revelation shows that 7 letters were written to 7 Angels and I don't think literal Angels need letters so I think the Angels are the Pastors of the 7 churches. But I don't think that is what Paul was talking about. Paul mentions tongues of Angels and that of men which is a contrasting statement indicating to me two different kinds of tongues. But I do not want to belabor the point but only show why I think this way.
I've been under the assumption you're a Christian brother. I honestly don't know WHAT you believe...if you are a Christian or not. I don't know what you mean by the above statements.
It would sound like you're a Oneness Pentecostal? Is that true? You seem like you're adding water baptism (in a special formula no less), along with tongues to the Gospel.
If I were to ask you, "what religion are you?" Would you reply, "Christian"?
Religion is an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules - I see that as a group of people, unified in the same belief.
A Christian is a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
When asked what religion I am - organized system with unified beliefs - I would tell them Pentecost.
I get a bad taste in my mouth when I think of myself as a Christian ONLY BECAUSE... half the world proclaims to be a Christian and yet we are not all unified in the teaching and doctrine. Why would I want to be clumped into the same category as hypocrites? Those who act holy in church then turn around and go live an unholy lifestyle out of church REALLY rubs me the wrong way. The unrighteous "Christians" have poisoned the watering hole. How can I bring a lost soul to the River of Life when that lost soul already took a drink of the poisoned water and became sick from it??? IT MAKES OUR JOB, AS SERVANTS, SO MUCH HARDER!!! The only way I can reach a lost soul is by showing them I am different and by showing them the love of God.
Quote:
I'm sorry....but the text does not teach that we have a special prayer language, or that it's normative for Christians to speak in tongues. If God wants me to do it...great! I will. But I haven't seen it.
I'm about to show you exactly where our "special prayer language" is in the Bible. But guess what? You will not find one scripture where it teaches you how to speak in tongues.
Why?
Because everyone is different. God did not make a single one of us alike. We were created in His likeness. Which means only HE can teach us. IF God wants you to do it? NO, get rid of that mindset. He COMMANDED it to you! In urban terms... IT'S DO OR DIE! Lol.
When you say you haven't seen it, are you referring to the scriptures or are you saying you haven't seen it in action before?
I'll leave you with this amazing story in the Bible...
Nicodemus came to Jesus and said, we know you are a teacher come from God because no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. Then Jesus told Nicodemus no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Nicodemus began questioning Jesus. How can a man be born when he is old?? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb?? Jesus repeated himself for a second time, but this time he added, unless you are born again of the water and of the spirit you cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Do not wonder about what I said to you, you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, you even hear it's sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. Same goes with everyone who is born of the spirit. Again, Nicodemus questioned Jesus, how can these things be?? Jesus asked, you are a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things I've said? Jesus went on to tell Nicodemus, I have told you what I know and I give you my testimony, but you do not receive my testimony. If I have told you of earthly things and you didn't believe, how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
So much to be learned in this short story
First and foremost, Jesus gave a command. He did not leave any wiggle room. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. And He told us how to do that, of the water and the spirit.
A lot can be learned from Nicodemus. He questioned Jesus, the man Himself, even after Jesus made it clear.
Jesus made a great point... If you don't believe the earthly things I tell you, how will you believe the heavenly things?
...FAITH...
You must have faith, and believe, then seek and you will find it. You cannot sit around and wait for mana to fall from heaven. He said, seek and you shall find! He will not give His promise of eternal life to someone who is not willing to approach Him and ask for it.
Salvation is NOT an eternal life game. This is serious. VERY SERIOUS.
Stay tuned for what I'm about to post next... (By the way, I am not your brother in the Lord. I am your sister in the Lord )
Let's all open our Bibles and discover the amazing truth about "tongues"
4 MEANINGS OF TONGUES IN CONTEXT(if there are others I'm not aware of, feel free to let me know)
1) "...every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
We see here the context is referring to saying, speaking, proclaiming, declaring, etc.
2) "...of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues"
The context in this scripture refers to the actual dialect itself. The diversity of every foreign/native language on earth.
3) "...but no one can tame the tongue."
Now we see this context is referring the literal tongue.
4) "...they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
We see this context is referring to speaking in tongues.
Now let's look and determine which type of tongue is used in these scriptures and if we can tell a difference between our earthly dialect (includes all languages on earth) and heavenly tongue (speaking in tongues)
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Looking at this verse, one would argue about it's true interpretation. But once you read the verse in it's context, you will see verse 44 is speaking about the Holy Ghost. **Circle that so we can make a connection later in reference to tongues and magnifying God**
1 Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
What does tongues refer to here? Earthly tongue or speaking in tongues? Just a few verses before we see "diversities of tongues" and this can still be unclear to those who don't believe. So let's look at the whole chapter and get a better understanding what this chapter is referring to.
Looking at the chapter in whole, it's clear 1 Cor 12 is teaching us about the Gifts of the Spirit. Do you think the meaning of "tongues" in verse 30 is referring to an earthly tongue? I see the undeniable connection to a heavenly language through the Spirit.
Just to make sure, I want to give you one more piece to the puzzle (I have a couple more I could show you, but I really think those "treasures" are meant for those who truly want to know more about God)
Verse 4 - Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
There it is. A diversity of gifts. There are many varieties when it comes to the Gifts of the Spirit and verse 28 also points out there are "diversities of tongues". Are the Gifts of the Spirit earthly? No. They come from God, He's the Spirit and He's not earthly.
God is so great and His mysteries are endless, so why would He give us the gift of the Holy Ghost ONLY to let us realize we were just speaking a foreign earthly language? No no no. God hears enough of our jibber-jabber, complaining and inner most thoughts on a daily basis in every earthly language. He robed Himself in flesh on this earth. He was despised and rejected in our earthly tongue while He still walked this earth. He hung on the cross, dying, while they laughed and scoffed at Him in our earthly tongue. His resurrection was the completed work on earth that brought forth the birth of a new plan of salvation THAT INCLUDED the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT gave the utterance. It's irrefutable, the moments you spend communicating with God are sacred, and for that purpose, He gave us His heavenly tongue because that's when our spirit and His Spirit are in unity.
Now that we see this chapter is on the Gifts of the Spirit, we now know why people say tongues aren't for everyone. They confuse speaking in tongues with the Gift of Tongues (which is a Gift of the Spirit that manifests after one has received the baptism of water and the Holy Ghost). God only gives a gift of the spirit to certain people, THUS...the reason why these gifts aren't for everyone! If God gives you a Gift of the Spirit, YOU WILL KNOW. Wisdom and knowledge come along with being born again, you will have discernment.**Circle this one too so you can make the connection later between tongues and the Spirit**
If you are STILL skeptical about whether or not verse 30 means speaking in tongues and not an earthly tongue, then I urge you to study the "diversities of tongues" as described in the Gifts of the Spirit. You will find your answer there. (HINT: one of them is intercessory prayer)
1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
MEN AND ANGELS - "and" is the key word here. And = also, even, both - It is VERY definite there are two types of dialect after you are filled with the Spirit, your earthly (normal, native) tongue and your heavenly tongue (speaking in tongues).
OF men ... OF angels - "of" is used to indicate derivation, origin, or source
Don't get hung up on this. He was pointing out how he spoke in two different tongues, men and angels. He COULD have said earth and heaven. But, since everyone has to be so LITERAL... Does the earth have a mouth to speak? No. Does heaven have a mouth to speak? No. So we can conclude he took the "beings" from their original place where they abide, men are from earth and angels are from heaven to relate his point. (Since these LITERAL places don't have a LITERAL mouth to speak) We don't communicate/pray to angels, only to God, and angels abide in heaven so that is why people call it a heavenly tongue. If it would make everyone feel better, we can also call it an angelic tongue. As long as you remember we don't pray to angels. Are we all on the same page now?
The teaching in this chapter is love (charity). He says, even though I speak in both tongues (the one of men and the one of angels) if I don't love, I have nothing. WHY? Because God is love. If you don't have love everything else you do on this earth and in the spirit is vain. **Circle this one too because we made a distinction between the tongues of men (earthly) and the tongues of angels (heavenly)**
1 Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
What is this unknown tongue? Why does it edify himself?
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: unknown tongue
To speak with (in) a tongue (the organ of speech), to speak with tongues; this appears from 1 Co. xiv 7, Is the gift of men who, rapt in an ecstasy and no longer quite masters of their own reason and consciousness, pour forth their glowing spiritual emotions in strange utterances... (Rapt=deeply engrossed or absorbed, transported with emotion; enraptured, showing or proceeding from rapture, carried off spiritually to another place, sphere of existence)
This definition also applies to verses: 2, 4-6, 13, 18, 23, 27, 39
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: edifieth
to grow in wisdom, piety (piety=reverence for God or devout fulfillment of religious obligations, the quality or state of being pious); (to pay reverence= the outward manifestation of this feeling).
Conclusion/Definition/Translation- if one can fathom just how awesome this is: He that speaks in a deeply engrossed, enraptured, carried off spiritually to another place tongue grows in wisdom, has reverence for God and fulfills their religious obligation. HOT DIGGITY DOG!!!! Did anyone else get the chills?? **Circle this one to make the connection of "unknown tongue" to whatever you want to label it as. It has a lot of amazing descriptions. I'll use... strange utterances. Also link it to Gifts of the Spirit (because this is the chapter it came from) and link it to personal growth in wisdom and outward manifestation (reverence) for God. Make note, Lexicon of "tongues" also applies to 8 other verses.
So much is wrapped up in ONE scripture about "unknown tongues". Sounds just like God, doesn't it? He is so plentiful. Only He could put some much action, emotion, love and knowledge into His heavenly tongue!! That is a WONDERFUL reminder of how much He loves us and how much He gives us, but only to those who desire it and seek it.
ONE LAST SCRIPTURE... THE PLAN OF SALVATION THAT WAS BIRTHED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST...
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
This is the very first account, we see the fulfillment through baptism of the Holy Ghost, it's birth! It speaks of water baptism further down in the chapter. God showed up and showed out during this miraculous birth!! You have sight, sound and of course, speech. The sight of it MUST have been glorious!! The sound was heard EVERYWHERE! The scripture says "abroad" **Circle this instance too, in relation to tongues and being filled with the Holy Ghost, also in relation to speaking in tongues according to/just as the Spirit spoke it**
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: "tongues"
A tongue, i.e. the language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations.
DISTINCTION
a difference or contrast between similar things or people
excellence that sets someone or something apart from others
Put it all together...
They began to speak with other tongues - a language that is different, set apart, from people in other nations - as the Spirit gave them utterance (to speak out, speak forth)
1 Cor 12:30: tongues and the connection to the Gifts of the Spirit
1 Cor 13:1: distinction between the tongues of men (earthly) and the tongues of angels (heavenly)
1 Cor 14:4: unknown tongue described as strange utterances - unknown tongue linked to Gifts of the Spirit, wisdom and outward manifestation (reverence) for God - Lexicon of unknown tongue linked to 8 other verses.
Acts 2:4: tongues linked to the Holy Ghost - tongues were spoken according to/just as the Spirit spoke it (utterance)
I am noticing several connections here, and this is how someone will discover it for themselves if they study it.
Connections
All of these references were confirmed to be an unknown language that is not present on this earth
All references in regards to tongues all intertwined with a connection to God, whether it was stated as the Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, Spirit, Gifts of the Spirit, Gifts, Angels, etc. (anything pertaining to God incl. heaven)
WITHOUT A DOUBT... THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE SCRIPTURES THAT MAKE REFERENCES TO TONGUES. BUT THIS IS YOUR STARTING POINT.
LOOK AT THE CONTEXT AND DETERMINE IF IT'S REFERRING TO 1 OF THE 4 MEANINGS: SPEECH, DIALECT, PART OF THE BODY OR TONGUES (SPEAKING IN TONGUES)
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Let's all open our Bibles and discover the amazing truth about "tongues"
4 MEANINGS OF TONGUES IN CONTEXT(if there are others I'm not aware of, feel free to let me know)
1) "...every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
We see here the context is referring to saying, speaking, proclaiming, declaring, etc.
2) "...of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues"
The context in this scripture refers to the actual dialect itself. The diversity of every foreign/native language on earth.
3) "...but no one can tame the tongue."
Now we see this context is referring the literal tongue.
4) "...they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
We see this context is referring to speaking in tongues.
Now let's look and determine which type of tongue is used in these scriptures and if we can tell a difference between our earthly dialect (includes all languages on earth) and heavenly tongue (speaking in tongues)
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Looking at this verse, one would argue about it's true interpretation. But once you read the verse in it's context, you will see verse 44 is speaking about the Holy Ghost. **Circle that so we can make a connection later in reference to tongues and magnifying God**
1 Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
What does tongues refer to here? Earthly tongue or speaking in tongues? Just a few verses before we see "diversities of tongues" and this can still be unclear to those who don't believe. So let's look at the whole chapter and get a better understanding what this chapter is referring to.
Looking at the chapter in whole, it's clear 1 Cor 12 is teaching us about the Gifts of the Spirit. Do you think the meaning of "tongues" in verse 30 is referring to an earthly tongue? I see the undeniable connection to a heavenly language through the Spirit.
Just to make sure, I want to give you one more piece to the puzzle (I have a couple more I could show you, but I really think those "treasures" are meant for those who truly want to know more about God)
Verse 4 - Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
There it is. A diversity of gifts. There are many varieties when it comes to the Gifts of the Spirit and verse 28 also points out there are "diversities of tongues". Are the Gifts of the Spirit earthly? No. They come from God, He's the Spirit and He's not earthly.
God is so great and His mysteries are endless, so why would He give us the gift of the Holy Ghost ONLY to let us realize we were just speaking a foreign earthly language? No no no. God hears enough of our jibber-jabber, complaining and inner most thoughts on a daily basis in every earthly language. He robed Himself in flesh on this earth. He was despised and rejected in our earthly tongue while He still walked this earth. He hung on the cross, dying, while they laughed and scoffed at Him in our earthly tongue. His resurrection was the completed work on earth that brought forth the birth of a new plan of salvation THAT INCLUDED the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT gave the utterance. It's irrefutable, the moments you spend communicating with God are sacred, and for that purpose, He gave us His heavenly tongue because that's when our spirit and His Spirit are in unity.
Now that we see this chapter is on the Gifts of the Spirit, we now know why people say tongues aren't for everyone. They confuse speaking in tongues with the Gift of Tongues (which is a Gift of the Spirit that manifests after one has received the baptism of water and the Holy Ghost). God only gives a gift of the spirit to certain people, THUS...the reason why these gifts aren't for everyone! If God gives you a Gift of the Spirit, YOU WILL KNOW. Wisdom and knowledge come along with being born again, you will have discernment.**Circle this one too so you can make the connection later between tongues and the Spirit**
If you are STILL skeptical about whether or not verse 30 means speaking in tongues and not an earthly tongue, then I urge you to study the "diversities of tongues" as described in the Gifts of the Spirit. You will find your answer there. (HINT: one of them is intercessory prayer)
1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
MEN AND ANGELS - "and" is the key word here. And = also, even, both - It is VERY definite there are two types of dialect after you are filled with the Spirit, your earthly (normal, native) tongue and your heavenly tongue (speaking in tongues).
OF men ... OF angels - "of" is used to indicate derivation, origin, or source
Don't get hung up on this. He was pointing out how he spoke in two different tongues, men and angels. He COULD have said earth and heaven. But, since everyone has to be so LITERAL... Does the earth have a mouth to speak? No. Does heaven have a mouth to speak? No. So we can conclude he took the "beings" from their original place where they abide, men are from earth and angels are from heaven to relate his point. (Since these LITERAL places don't have a LITERAL mouth to speak) We don't communicate/pray to angels, only to God, and angels abide in heaven so that is why people call it a heavenly tongue. If it would make everyone feel better, we can also call it an angelic tongue. As long as you remember we don't pray to angels. Are we all on the same page now?
The teaching in this chapter is love (charity). He says, even though I speak in both tongues (the one of men and the one of angels) if I don't love, I have nothing. WHY? Because God is love. If you don't have love everything else you do on this earth and in the spirit is vain. **Circle this one too because we made a distinction between the tongues of men (earthly) and the tongues of angels (heavenly)**
1 Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
What is this unknown tongue? Why does it edify himself?
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: unknown tongue
To speak with (in) a tongue (the organ of speech), to speak with tongues; this appears from 1 Co. xiv 7, Is the gift of men who, rapt in an ecstasy and no longer quite masters of their own reason and consciousness, pour forth their glowing spiritual emotions in strange utterances... (Rapt=deeply engrossed or absorbed, transported with emotion; enraptured, showing or proceeding from rapture, carried off spiritually to another place, sphere of existence)
This definition also applies to verses: 2, 4-6, 13, 18, 23, 27, 39
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: edifieth
to grow in wisdom, piety (piety=reverence for God or devout fulfillment of religious obligations, the quality or state of being pious); (to pay reverence= the outward manifestation of this feeling).
Conclusion/Definition/Translation- if one can fathom just how awesome this is: He that speaks in a deeply engrossed, enraptured, carried off spiritually to another place tongue grows in wisdom, has reverence for God and fulfills their religious obligation. HOT DIGGITY DOG!!!! Did anyone else get the chills?? **Circle this one to make the connection of "unknown tongue" to whatever you want to label it as. It has a lot of amazing descriptions. I'll use... strange utterances. Also link it to Gifts of the Spirit (because this is the chapter it came from) and link it to personal growth in wisdom and outward manifestation (reverence) for God. Make note, Lexicon of "tongues" also applies to 8 other verses.
So much is wrapped up in ONE scripture about "unknown tongues". Sounds just like God, doesn't it? He is so plentiful. Only He could put some much action, emotion, love and knowledge into His heavenly tongue!! That is a WONDERFUL reminder of how much He loves us and how much He gives us, but only to those who desire it and seek it.
ONE LAST SCRIPTURE... THE PLAN OF SALVATION THAT WAS BIRTHED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST...
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
This is the very first account, we see the fulfillment through baptism of the Holy Ghost, it's birth! It speaks of water baptism further down in the chapter. God showed up and showed out during this miraculous birth!! You have sight, sound and of course, speech. The sight of it MUST have been glorious!! The sound was heard EVERYWHERE! The scripture says "abroad" **Circle this instance too, in relation to tongues and being filled with the Holy Ghost, also in relation to speaking in tongues according to/just as the Spirit spoke it**
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: "tongues"
A tongue, i.e. the language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations.
DISTINCTION
a difference or contrast between similar things or people
excellence that sets someone or something apart from others
Put it all together...
They began to speak with other tongues - a language that is different, set apart, from people in other nations - as the Spirit gave them utterance (to speak out, speak forth)
1 Cor 12:30: tongues and the connection to the Gifts of the Spirit
1 Cor 13:1: distinction between the tongues of men (earthly) and the tongues of angels (heavenly)
1 Cor 14:4: unknown tongue described as strange utterances - unknown tongue linked to Gifts of the Spirit, wisdom and outward manifestation (reverence) for God - Lexicon of unknown tongue linked to 8 other verses.
Acts 2:4: tongues linked to the Holy Ghost - tongues were spoken according to/just as the Spirit spoke it (utterance)
I am noticing several connections here, and this is how someone will discover it for themselves if they study it.
Connections
All of these references were confirmed to be an unknown language that is not present on this earth
All references in regards to tongues all intertwined with a connection to God, whether it was stated as the Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, Spirit, Gifts of the Spirit, Gifts, Angels, etc. (anything pertaining to God incl. heaven)
WITHOUT A DOUBT... THERE ARE MANY MANY MORE SCRIPTURES THAT MAKE REFERENCES TO TONGUES. BUT THIS IS YOUR STARTING POINT.
LOOK AT THE CONTEXT AND DETERMINE IF IT'S REFERRING TO 1 OF THE 4 MEANINGS: SPEECH, DIALECT, PART OF THE BODY OR TONGUES (SPEAKING IN TONGUES)
Shalom!
I agree with the scriptures, speaking in other tongues is real, millions of Christians around the world experienced it from different denominations, many Catholics speak in other tongues, it is not only for Pentecostals, the Holy Spirit has jumped over the fence so to speak.
I had a friend that believed like you seem to believe. You do not say it directly, but in the end you believe only the one is saved that speaks in tongues. If this is the case, this will get you a lot of opposition. I remember when my friend wanted to "save" a born again baptist to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It always ended in an argument, not in a baptism.
We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Faith comes through the word of God that is the water. The Spirit comes into a believer, He is born again. That is not the baptism in water nor in the Holy Spirit but into Jesus Christ and that is the baptism that cleanses us from our sins, because we ask Jesus to forgive us our sins. At least we have to acknowledge that we are a sinner and ask Jesus to save us as the one on the cross did, no other conditions. I know the testimony where a brother only said "Jesus, Jesus,Jesus" and the LORD saved him, delivered him from drugs, he was free immediately and never took them again. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is an experience after salvation, that tongues are helpful to stay filled with the Holy Spirit and remain saved shows us the 10 virgins. The Apostle Paul encouraged us to speak in tongues, he says he does it often. It builds up our faith, it is a help when we do not know how to pray, the Holy Spirit knows, He gives us the right words, it is a help to worship God in truth and Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is to receive power from on high to be an affective witness what brings fruit. Do any one wants fruit? Do we need that power in our days? More than ever! How to receive it? It is by faith, we have to ask Jesus, He is the baptizer. When they tried to baptize me and I wanted it, they tried in two weeks every day, I did not receive. Maybe I was already baptized without the evidence to speak in tongues. Nobody can get something he has already. But I got the tongues later anyway. The first words came into my mind and I spoke them not understanding and than they were coming more and more, it was good. The first words I remembered and they sounded Greek to me. So I asked a Greek student and he said I addressed the LORD in the right way (Grammar). When I did not received the tongues, I know that I was dead in my sins than, but even that is not an obstacle, I know someone who received the baptism as a practicing homosexual, that sounds strange, but it is true, obviously God forgave Him. God gave Him the Holy Spirit to save him, he got free through praying and fasting, the Holy Spirit showed him he had to forgive the ones that abused him as child. It was the Holy Spirit that sat him free, we were not able to deliver him. Praise God for the Holy Spirit.
You have already been shown in another post but perhaps you missed it or you don't see it as proof.
Here it is again:
1COR 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
Granted, you may say no proof here but only "though". Yet for me the implication is it is possible to speak in the tongue of an Angel or Paul would not have even mentioned it. And I think I have the Spirit to help me interprete things. I do know I haven't been always right but in this I think I am. And it is not a deal breaker to be wrong on the matter because I do not give such gifts or not but God can and does what He wants.
I guess you do not understand what Paul is trying to convey there...
Angel is the term for messenger of God . . . not some other tongue. Paul is simply saying that whether or not he speaks as a man or as the messenger of God . . . without love it is useless.
Now, that makes more sense than being focused on...Oh, wait, Angels have their own. Language?...
I understand perhaps why you think that but I don't agree. I understand that Angel can refer to a man as a messenger of God as revelation shows that 7 letters were written to 7 Angels and I don't think literal Angels need letters so I think the Angels are the Pastors of the 7 churches. But I don't think that is what Paul was talking about. Paul mentions tongues of Angels and that of men which is a contrasting statement indicating to me two different kinds of tongues. But I do not want to belabor the point but only show why I think this way.
Where else in the Bible does it reference an Angelic tongue?...
If I were to ask you, "what religion are you?" Would you reply, "Christian"?
Religion is an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules - I see that as a group of people, unified in the same belief.
A Christian is a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
When asked what religion I am - organized system with unified beliefs - I would tell them Pentecost.
I get a bad taste in my mouth when I think of myself as a Christian ONLY BECAUSE... half the world proclaims to be a Christian and yet we are not all unified in the teaching and doctrine. Why would I want to be clumped into the same category as hypocrites? Those who act holy in church then turn around and go live an unholy lifestyle out of church REALLY rubs me the wrong way. The unrighteous "Christians" have poisoned the watering hole. How can I bring a lost soul to the River of Life when that lost soul already took a drink of the poisoned water and became sick from it??? IT MAKES OUR JOB, AS SERVANTS, SO MUCH HARDER!!! The only way I can reach a lost soul is by showing them I am different and by showing them the love of God.
I'm about to show you exactly where our "special prayer language" is in the Bible. But guess what? You will not find one scripture where it teaches you how to speak in tongues.
Why?
Because everyone is different. God did not make a single one of us alike. We were created in His likeness. Which means only HE can teach us. IF God wants you to do it? NO, get rid of that mindset. He COMMANDED it to you! In urban terms... IT'S DO OR DIE! Lol.
When you say you haven't seen it, are you referring to the scriptures or are you saying you haven't seen it in action before?
I'll leave you with this amazing story in the Bible...
Nicodemus came to Jesus and said, we know you are a teacher come from God because no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. Then Jesus told Nicodemus no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Nicodemus began questioning Jesus. How can a man be born when he is old?? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb?? Jesus repeated himself for a second time, but this time he added, unless you are born again of the water and of the spirit you cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Do not wonder about what I said to you, you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes, you even hear it's sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. Same goes with everyone who is born of the spirit. Again, Nicodemus questioned Jesus, how can these things be?? Jesus asked, you are a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things I've said? Jesus went on to tell Nicodemus, I have told you what I know and I give you my testimony, but you do not receive my testimony. If I have told you of earthly things and you didn't believe, how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
So much to be learned in this short story
First and foremost, Jesus gave a command. He did not leave any wiggle room. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. And He told us how to do that, of the water and the spirit.
A lot can be learned from Nicodemus. He questioned Jesus, the man Himself, even after Jesus made it clear.
Jesus made a great point... If you don't believe the earthly things I tell you, how will you believe the heavenly things?
...FAITH...
You must have faith, and believe, then seek and you will find it. You cannot sit around and wait for mana to fall from heaven. He said, seek and you shall find! He will not give His promise of eternal life to someone who is not willing to approach Him and ask for it.
Salvation is NOT an eternal life game. This is serious. VERY SERIOUS.
Stay tuned for what I'm about to post next... (By the way, I am not your brother in the Lord. I am your sister in the Lord )
If I were to ask you, "what religion are you?" Would you reply, "Christian"?
Religion is an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules - I see that as a group of people, unified in the same belief.
A Christian is a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
When asked what religion I am - organized system with unified beliefs - I would tell them Pentecost.
I don't understand what it means to be "Pentecost."
Pentecost Definition: noun
1.the Christian festival celebrating the descent of the Holy Spirit on the disciples of Jesus after his Ascension, held on the seventh Sunday after Easter.
2.the Jewish festival of Shavuoth.
Personally, I look forward to the day when I no longer have my denomination's name listed in the Yellow Pages and on the Church Sign. For I am a CHRISTian first and foremost, for his name endures forever.
Pentecostals are far from unified. The Trinitarians and the Modalists have nothing to do with one another.
Quote:
I get a bad taste in my mouth when I think of myself as a Christian ONLY BECAUSE... half the world proclaims to be a Christian and yet we are not all unified in the teaching and doctrine. Why would I want to be clumped into the same category as hypocrites? Those who act holy in church then turn around and go live an unholy lifestyle out of church REALLY rubs me the wrong way. The unrighteous "Christians" have poisoned the watering hole. How can I bring a lost soul to the River of Life when that lost soul already took a drink of the poisoned water and became sick from it??? IT MAKES OUR JOB, AS SERVANTS, SO MUCH HARDER!!! The only way I can reach a lost soul is by showing them I am different and by showing them the love of God.
You get a bad taste in your mouth being only a Christian. People have been willingly martyred for declaring themselves followers of Christ who gave his life that you may live eternally in his Father's presence. Every true Christian should want nothing more than to called CHRISTIAN not ____________(Methodist. Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, Episcopalian, etc..) I will always be a Christian first.
You're concerned about showing lost souls the love of God, yet you call all us other Christians hypocrites, unholy, unrighteous to the point we leave a bad taste in your mouth. All Christians who are not Oneness Pentecostals are poisoning the watering hole. I've read on the UPCI website ONLY ONENESS PENTECOSTALS GO TO HEAVEN. If that's the case heaven will be barren.
You should consider that perhaps in today's technological world people can read all the following about what is required of them to be a Oneness UPC Pentecostal. Maybe that's where the well has been poisoned.
Women are not allowed to cut their hair.
Women are not allowed to wear slacks, jeans, pants.
Women are not allowed to wear jewelry.
Women are not allowed to wear makeup.
Women's hemlines must fall below, not at or above the knee.
Women's clothing must not be too tight.
Women's clothing must not be too thin.
Women's sleeves must cover the elbow.
Women's necklines must not be too low.
Men get off easier;
Men's hair must not touch the collar or cover the ear.
No TV.
No movies in theaters.
No dancing.
No worldly sporting events.
No eating at certain restaurants.
"The Bible gives us just the minimum modesty standards for today," reads a UPCI Positional Paper.
This type of rhetoric is why I am no longer a Pentecostal....Typical...Nothing he posted was false...
Obviously you must have gone to a church that forced beliefs down your throat. I know a lot of churches like that. And guess what? They aren't all Pentecostal churches.
Make a thread about it.
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How to make the connection with "tongues"
