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This is what is really sad. That people in their heart of hearts can really believe God would do this to someone.
Bishop Carlton Pearson, to his credit and integrity, was thrown out of the Fundamentalist Corporate Machine hierarchy headed by that scoundrel of all scoundrels, Oral Roberts of "Jesus will call me home if you good fools don't donate 15 million to my Oral Roberts University Medical Center". Pearson watched a report on Muslim Rwandan refugees covered in dung and flies trudging across the border to Tanzania to flee horrible slaughter at the hands of Tutsi warlords and said to himself, "Surely a God of mercy cannot condemn all these poor souls, already living a life in hell here on earth, to an eternal pit of fire and torture after they die." When he publicly renounced eternal torment he lost his position in a mega-church, his influence with political highbrows, a 10-million-dollar salary--basically everything because the Fundamentalist Corporate Machine felt a threat against the deadliest hammer they wield against dumb church-folk to keep them in line, "eternal torment in hell."
Sad. Pathetic. Heartbreaking that people can still think like a Medieval Spanish Inquisition.
It is indeed a true travesty and corruption of the Christian Gospel, Thrill! It taints the spirits of all who believe it and sullies any "love of God and each other." That is what comes of thinking WHAT you believe about God and Christ is what is important to God. It is NOT! What you truly believe and DO in following Christ's instructions to "love God and each other" is what is important to God.
The tormentor will be given many lashes; all that he has dished out.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
What scripture passage is that from?
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
Will he not repay everyone according to what they have done?
Is there a time, when every deed will be judged?
Or is that not, what you believe?
The "reaping what we sow" aspect is ignored, Jerwade. Our task is seen as stroking the ego of God the Father by believing whatever "precepts and doctrines of men" about His Son are part and parcel of their chosen religion. If God's ego is satisfied by their acceptance of these beliefs ABOUT Jesus . . . everything is cool. That is the essence of easy believism.
The truth is not based on "well ... that's your interpretation".
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SIZE=2] [/SIZE]By their fruit you will recognize them."
The "fruit" of a false prophet is what they preach or what they scorn Jesus about. And the same people who think they are okey dokey are the same ones who openly oppose Jesus if it's something that they don't like what he taught.
Nevertheless, the Bible must be interpreted and there is only one correct interpretation. I don't know how any one can know beyond a doubt if they have the correct interpretation; I'm definitely open to explanations of how this can be. Personally from what I have learned so far I understand fruits to be what a person does (like their works for example); the person who loves God will want to do what He has commanded them which is found in the Bible which has to be interpreted, so it all goes back to interpretation. There is definitely only one Truth and it doesn't matter how we interpret it--it exists despite our attempts to confine it into one interpretation or the other; I'm still just not convinced there is any way to know beyond any doubt we have the interpretation that is Truth (that could be my worldly rational mind getting in the way though).
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte
This is what is really sad. That people in their heart of hearts can really believe God would do this to someone.
I think it would be sad if he wants it to be that way. We can't comprehend God--we can only know that which He has revealed to us in the Bible and this person is only relaying what is written there. I have to admit, it does sound very cruel that this would be the case (and I definitely don't want to believe that of God because it makes God sound harsh and cruel and I have not experienced that from Him--I have only experienced love and compassion); but I am a human and I can't detach myself from my humanity. Our ways are not God's ways (I believe that God is a God of mercy and compassion--I trust in Him that what will happen to this person who was tortured on earth will be just and fair according to God's standards and not my own; I certainly hope that they will know the love of God for eternity).
I feel the saddest of all things is when a person can not trust God to know what is good for them and rather only chooses to believe that which makes sense to them.
Well then why the question? I don't understand. Maybe I'm just slow today.
You were speaking in jest about going to hell for good works, and so I used the absurdity in jest of the Morman's Bible possibly missing the Book of James (I know it isn't missing). A joke in response to your joke. Sorry, many people don't realise when i'm joking. I guess it's because so many people here post absurdities in complete seriousness.
BTW I have appreciated many of your posts over the years, just so you know.
From what I have learned so far as well as from my own conversion experience, what happens when you believe upon Christ for your salvation is that He works a change in your heart so that you want to do what He commands in the Bible--you want to do works because you love God, not because you think they're going to "get you heaven" or whatever.
Yes!
Katzpur and I are obviously in agreement with Basil on this. I would like to add: I am aware that our works in terms of merit by themselves may appear as filthy rags to our Lord, but in some mysterious way they do score points with God, not because of our desire to score points to get into heaven but simply by virtue of the fact that Jesus commands us to do them; we do them out of love for Him ("If you love Me keep My commandments") expecting no reward and somehow, some way God works them into the completion of our salvation along with faith in Christ. Thus faith + good works = salvation.
Good works do not occur outside the grace of God. Our good works do not justify us, they testify that we are in fact born-again.
Good works outside the Spirit of God are wonderfully moral, but do not testify of the change in heart that must come to any who have met Jesus in a heart felt, soul-filling experience. And it is NOT a one time experience. In a very real sense we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved through the grace of God. The problems occur when someone must look back to a one time decision rather than understand salvation as an all times experience.
No good tree fails to bring forth good fruit. But though the tree produces the fruit, it is He who implanted the seed that is expecting a harvest. He will prune the good trees and lavish great attention on them. The fruitless trees are removed from the vineyard.
If faith is a seed and work is the cultivation... then doesn't the good harvest produce more faith? We think in such linear ways at times.
If your not living it, your not believing it. ...just sayin'
Excellent point. Gotta wonder, how many actually walk their talk like you do Dave?
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