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Old 12-22-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I have read many of the writing attributed to being lost books or just plain old rejected books. Many of them are from much later dates than they claim usually arounf the 15th century while claiming 1st or second. None of them meet the criteria of being authentic but they can be useful for unbderstanding certain cultures. Now there are books referenced by Christ that have been claimed to have been found and even they do not meet the same criteria of canon..
Actually, the Nag Hammadi libary was found in the year 1945 and has been dated to the second century as for when the books were THERE were published, when in reality those books go back much, much further, with the Gospel of Thomas pre-dating the Book or Revelation


Quote:
We must be careful because the Lord did warn us that in the endtimes many would fall away seeking after false Christs and preachers who tickle their ears.
"Seeking false Christ in the end times?" So when Gnosticism was being practiced widely in the first and second century, those were the "end times"? Or when the Cathars appeared in the 11th century? Or when Manicheanism was a world religion in the third century? Wow, the end times have been going on for awhile...

And the end times are only mentioned in Revelation, which was written by someone who never met anyone who met anyone who knew Christ and was written a hundred years after Christ by someone who claims to of "had a vision"...so, this guy had a vision, and that's okay..but a "vision" from the Gnostic Valentius or Simon Magus? "Well, that isn't Christian!"

I practice Christianity, not Churchianity...
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,873,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
We must be careful because the Lord did warn us that in the endtimes many would fall away seeking after false Christs and preachers who tickle their ears.
Lets see if we can identify some of those false Christs and preachers..........

How about we consider important the things that Jesus considered important and see if we can separate people today by what they consider important.

Jesus did not seek after money.......Today's "evangelicals" plead for money on numerous TV channels. Jesus did not seek political power......politics are preached from many pulpits with some evangelicals running for President. Jesus did not promote war.....we have an evangelical President who started one. Jesus fought against the defilement of the temple through commercialism....many evangelical churches have book stores in them and I know of two that have credit unions in them. Jesus sought solitude when he prayed.....many evangelical churches have loud and riotous prayer sessions. Jesus had compassion for the poor.....evangelicals fight vigorously against welfare and programs to help the poor. Jesus healed the sick.......evangelicals today fight vigorously against universal health care.

So, based on the "fruits of their ministry" the false teachers, in many instances, are the evangelicals........did I get that right Robin? We need to turn our backs on mega churches and TV ministries and the prosperity preaching that so many of us have been subjected to?
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:17 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,722,737 times
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Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
Lets see if we can identify some of those false Christs and preachers..........

How about we consider important the things that Jesus considered important and see if we can separate people today by what they consider important.

Jesus did not seek after money.......Today's "evangelicals" plead for money on numerous TV channels. Jesus did not seek political power......politics are preached from many pulpits with some evangelicals running for President. Jesus did not promote war.....we have an evangelical President who started one. Jesus fought against the defilement of the temple through commercialism....many evangelical churches have book stores in them and I know of two that have credit unions in them. Jesus sought solitude when he prayed.....many evangelical churches have loud and riotous prayer sessions. Jesus had compassion for the poor.....evangelicals fight vigorously against welfare and programs to help the poor. Jesus healed the sick.......evangelicals today fight vigorously against universal health care.

So, based on the "fruits of their ministry" the false teachers, in many instances, are the evangelicals........did I get that right Robin? We need to turn our backs on mega churches and TV ministries and the prosperity preaching that so many of us have been subjected to?

AMEN AMEN AND AMEN AGAIN!

When I read about Christ and than look at people who call themselves Christians, I have to shake my head. Would Christ of hung out with these modern day Pharisees? Probably not. What kind of people were the Discipiles?... today, we would call them hippies, freaks, bohemians, hood rats and slackers....but what do the evangelicals present as the model of Christian behavior? Someone who lives in a wealthy suburb, is inevitably white (despite the 'faith of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:27) drives an SUV, has a submissive "Stepford Wife" (not like the Mary Magdalene of Luke 10:38-42, who has an independence that Christ approves of for being a woman who wants to learn the Gospel and not do housework, a revolutionary idea at the time) and is completely quite and none threatening in life behind a white picket fence. Scary, and not Christ like at all.

I read a article in LA weekly about Bishop Hoeller's Gnostic church in LA, and it said something telling...
Quote:
Most of the liturgy would be familiar to any Catholic, as would the vestments worn by Bishop Hoeller and his clergy. Only the place, and perhaps the parishioners, would make you feel you had picked the wrong door and wandered into a catacomb art-directed by David Lynch and populated with extras cast by Tim Burton.
The Gnostic Society Main Page (click on the magazine photo to view article)

If Christ and his disciples were modern day people, they would no-doubt be a bunch of goths, punks, hippies, blue color slackers, beatniks, and a short haired, flannel wearing feminist,(like the people at Bishop Hoeller's church) not the new Pharisees the fundies exalt.

In the end, some people just want to have a simple religion that has a bunch of laws and all the spiritual pipe dreams they could hope for...and Gnostic Christianity IS NOT THAT RELIGION. Life is hard, your creator has nothing but contempt for you, and you must learn for yourself through dealing with the harshness of life by not just following the teachings of Christ, but working every day to become Christ-like in action thought and deed, and understanding. No "follow the rules and get the pie-in the sky when you die," only "Use your brain and you will grow in this harsh cruel world run by a hateful god!"

That is why allot of the people reject Gnostic Christianity, because it is not a path for the lazy or people who don't like to think.

Also...keep in mind the ONE verse that you will never, EVER get any fundie to look at from their OWN BIBLE....


Quote:
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you with certainty, it will be hard for a rich person to get into the kingdom of heaven.Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:23-24

Now, last time I check the fundie's "leader" George Bush was a pretty rich man indeed...so, is he going to heaven? How about all those other Christian millionaires? Ever try to push a camel through the eye of a needle? It's impossible...so what does that say about a rich man (like Bush) and his chances of going to heaven?

Every time I bring this one up the self-discribed "literalist" stand up and say "uhhh....well....that's not meant to be taken literally"

Not to mention the same "good Christian" Bush who said God told him to invade Iraq...WHICH I AM SURE gOD did, that is Yaldabaoth, the cruel creator, but certaintly not the loving God of Christ, which is Pleroma, the God above gods, for did not Christ say,

Quote:
"How blessed are those who make peace, because it is they who will be called God's children!
Matthew 5:9

So, is Bush to be called one of "God's Children"?

BTW, I, like most Gnostics, except the Gospels of the NT, as well as Acts, Hebrews and the books not "writen by Paul", as well as Psalms and Proverbs, which use the Hebrew femine term for wisdom, hokhmah, meaning that they were inspired not by the Demiurge, but by Sophia.

We just have the Gnostic Gospels to fill in the blanks the NT approved gospels left behind (like why is Christ's God so kind, while the OT god so cruel?)
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:38 AM
 
39,782 posts, read 26,595,443 times
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
BTW, I, like most Gnostics, except the Gospels of the NT, as well as Acts, Hebrews and the books not "writen by Paul", as well as Psalms and Proverbs, which use the Hebrew femine term for wisdom, hokhmah, meaning that they were inspired not by the Demiurge, but by Sophia.

We just have the Gnostic Gospels to fill in the blanks the NT approved gospels left behind (like why is Christ's God so kind, while the OT god so cruel?)
::Sigh:: We are ALL looking at the same reality . . . to become so wedded to a single view is illogical and hardly prudent!! We cannot all be interpreting only error . . . when we disagree. Reality is reality . . . and has an undeniable core to it that cannot escape the notice of everyone. My views have been gleaned from an eclectic array of sincere seekers of the truth . . . of whatever stripe . . . scientist, philosopher, mystic, theologian, etc. Agreement amongst such diverse views is probative.
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