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There are no strings attached to eternal salvation. Including obedience to the commands of God. The only command which the unbeliever can obey is the command to believe on Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).
The moment a person believes that Jesus died for his sins with the result that he trusts in Christ alone for his salvation he has eternal life and can never lose it.
So by that you are saying God never breaks His promises? I believe the Bible uses the word "breach" like in this passage: "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise." Numbers 14:34 (KJV)
Well, since it is a promise we are speaking of and all God's promises carry with them a condition of obedience when should one then expect to stop living in the promise and live in the fulfillment of what He has promised? Should the Christian who lives like the world ever expect to have the promises of God for his life, fulfilled?
Good post Croref! -- As a relatively new poster on the CD Christian forum, you may not have realized yet that 'you have just entered the Twilight Zone of UR'. In this 'zone', not only has Christ alone done it all; ... BUT, many hold the notion that no response, faith, belief (and certainly no action or words) have any part in one's Salvation -- (and they inject this view into almost every post.)
Don't worry, there is a much larger contingent of folks on CD who are 'still willing to endure sound doctrine;' --- folks who rely on God's Word as God's 'truth standard.' (Mike555 and I are two of these, plus there are many others.
As long as one believes in and recognizes Christ alone as their Savior, one's belief that believers in Christ alone (or that all people, by virtue of their existence) - will be saved, may not influence who is ultimately 'saved' or 'not saved'. My concern is that the proliferation of this belief could ultimately lead some to ignore or reject even the foundational belief and trust in Christ (since the UR message so often seems to infer that one's creation and existence alone are sufficient).
I'm hurt I didn't see my name in your list Bro Horton. I still agree with everything you've said. When I started on this forum I thought it would be like other Christian forums I'm on, pretty much like minded individuals sharing. Frankly, if it hadn't been for people like you and Mike, I would have bailed on this forum three days after starting. I too welcome you Croref, don't get discouraged and leave like I've already seen two others do in the short time I've been on here. And don't be thin skinned! God bless.
So by that you are saying God never breaks His promises? I believe the Bible uses the word "breach" like in this passage: "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise." Numbers 14:34 (KJV)
Well, since it is a promise we are speaking of and all God's promises carry with them a condition of obedience when should one then except to stop living in the promise and live in the fulfillment of what He has promised? Should the Christian who lives like the world ever expect to have the promises of God for his life, fulfilled?
God has both conditional promises and unconditional promises. The only condition for eternal life is to trust in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Having done so, the believer is entered into union with Christ and is therefore identified with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and session. Having died with Christ it is stated that the believer will live with Christ.
Rom. 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7] for he who has died is freed from sin. 8]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
2 Timothy 2:11-13 speaks of this also.
2 Tim. 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
Every believer has died with Christ and therefore will live with Christ.
12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
The eternally saved believer [v.11] who endures will have rulership privileges and responsibilities and will rule with Christ. The eternally saved believer who comes to deny Christ is still saved but will be denied rulership responsibilities in the kingdom.
13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Though the believer may become faithless, Jesus remains faithful because He cannot deny Himself. Every believer is a part of the body of Christ and will not lose his salvation because of faithlessness on his part. Once a person has trusted in the finished work of Christ on the Cross no unfaithfulness on his part can undo his eternal relationship with God.
Again, the only condition for eternal life is to recognize our inability to save ourselves and therefore trust in Christ for eternal life. Once having believed on Christ the believer is sealed unto or for the day of redemption. And the believer can do nothing to break that seal (Ephesians 4:30).
Did you read my post in the other thread? Can you address these scriptures if we don't really need to do what the Bible says?
Read John 3:5 and explain to me what Jesus was really saying when He said you have to be born again of the water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. Then look at Matt 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. Then in Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Mark 16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
To ignore all other scriptures about salvation is to ignore the Word of God. Which makes us unbelievers. And if we don't believe we are not saved.
I'm hurt I didn't see my name in your list Bro Horton. I still agree with everything you've said. When I started on this forum I thought it would be like other Christian forums I'm on, pretty much like minded individuals sharing. Frankly, if it hadn't been for people like you and Mike, I would have bailed on this forum three days after starting. I too welcome you Croref, don't get discouraged and leave like I've already seen two others do in the short time I've been on here. And don't be thin skinned! God bless.
Croref, as shown by his posts does not believe in eternal salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. He believes in salvation by works and obedience, probably in addition to faith, which is contrary to the true gospel.
Croref, as shown by his posts does not believe in eternal salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. He believes in salvation by works and obedience, probably in addition to faith, which is contrary to the true gospel.
I believe you need lessons in the "ways of God" Mike. His ways are ways to be learned that enable one to move into the fulfillment of his promises that only one who belongs to Him should know as the only way to accomplish the advancing in son-ship. Even Jesus had to learn those ways..Jesus, full of grace and truth. Why, because He learned the ways of His Father. And He said if you learn them, He would call you His brother! Now, Doesn't that make sense?
Croref, as shown by his posts does not believe in eternal salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. He believes in salvation by works and obedience, probably in addition to faith, which is contrary to the true gospel.
Did you not say in your original post:
Quote:
The doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus does not deny the importance of works as a part of the believer's spiritual life in time.
Focus on the highlighted part. Remove what is said after it "in time". Because I have not found one scripture that says it will come in time. Salvation is a package deal. You do not have to "work" for your salvation. You do these "works" BECAUSE you believe.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Croref, as shown by his posts does not believe in eternal salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. He believes in salvation by works and obedience, probably in addition to faith, which is contrary to the true gospel.
Yikes, after doing some more reading of his posts I'm discovering that too. Thanks for the heads up Mike.
Yikes, after doing some more reading of his posts I'm discovering that too. Thanks for the heads up Mike.
May I ask, why is [everyone] rejecting what the scriptures say? You never replied to any of my posts... Why are people ignoring the true word of God? It's written in black and white. I never saw any grey areas. Why is [everyone] so eager to discredit what Jesus told us to do? Are [you] saying He lied to us? Are [you] saying we are to ignore Jesus, therefore, not to believe in Him and His teachings?
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I still agree with everything you've said. When I started on this forum I thought it would be like other Christian forums I'm on, pretty much like minded individuals sharing. Frankly, if it hadn't been for people like you and Mike, I would have bailed on this forum three days after starting. I too welcome you Croref, don't get discouraged and leave like I've already seen two others do in the short time I've been on here. And don't be thin skinned! God bless.
