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Old 02-22-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 573,942 times
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Does anyone know what the deal is with these 2 accounts of David taking the census in Israel?

One account, in 1 Chronicles 21:1 reads:


"Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel"


and the other account, in 2 Samuel 24:1 reads:

The anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."



WTF. They are two separate accounts of the same event. Was it Satan or was it God who told David to do this?
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
Was it Satan or was it God who told David to do this?
Both. It was God using Satan.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
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So then Satan is a tool of God, and works for God.

So when Satan tempted Eve....was that God using Satan...or was Satan doing it out of rebelliousness?

And if Satan really rebelled...how is it that he cooperates with God?
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:31 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
So then Satan is a tool of God, and works for God.

So when Satan tempted Eve....was that God using Satan...or was Satan doing it out of rebelliousness?

And if Satan really rebelled...how is it that he cooperates with God?
Good questions.

I'm sure there's a pat answer in an apologist handbook somewhere. One of the funda-literalists should be along to help you out soon.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:59 PM
 
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What this was that King David and His Israel were at war with the Jebusite, the Syrians , and with Ammon, and the Philistines and others nations and many people from these foreigners were living in Israel defiling the Israelites and this got unnoticed , so the `satan that stood against Israel was the foreigners living in Israel which offended God because God was keeping the nation cleansed and had no covenant with these foreigners and could not keep Israel cleansed , as these foreigners were the work of satan ............... So God ordered a census taken and some of the parts of Israel refused and then God put a plague on Jerusalem and Israel and this killed seventy thousand men , which remove the foreigners along with repentance of the burn offering brought justice which God could stay and cleans the people ................. See killing people who God could not cleans of satan was the only way to redeem people in those day before Jesus became and had that authority in the spirit ..................See God is angry because satan was overwhelming the plan of God to have a people in the earth who would eventually usher in a Saviour who became Jesus , as satan his authority of people were destroyed by God through His warrior Holy Angels by killing the people , as the warrior Holy Angels had equal power with satan and his hoards........ Where as when the blood of Jesus came the equal power with satan was gone and Jesus blood is then multi times more powerful now...
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 573,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
What this was that King David and His Israel were at war with the Jebusite, the Syrians , and with Ammon, and the Philistines and others nations and many people from these foreigners were living in Israel defiling the Israelites and this got unnoticed , so the `satan that stood against Israel was the foreigners living in Israel which offended God because God was keeping the nation cleansed and had no covenant with these foreigners and could not keep Israel cleansed , as these foreigners were the work of satan ............... So God ordered a census taken and some of the parts of Israel refused and then God put a plague on Jerusalem and Israel and this killed seventy thousand men , which remove the foreigners along with repentance of the burn offering brought justice which God could stay and cleans the people ................. See killing people who God could not cleans of satan was the only way to redeem people in those day before Jesus became and had that authority in the spirit ..................See God is angry because satan was overwhelming the plan of God to have a people in the earth who would eventually usher in a Saviour who became Jesus , as satan his authority of people were destroyed by God through His warrior Holy Angels by killing the people , as the warrior Holy Angels had equal power with satan and his hoards........ Where as when the blood of Jesus came the equal power with satan was gone and Jesus blood is then multi times more powerful now...
Well if Satan was really "overwhelming the plan of God" then God could have and should have brought Jesus the Messiah MUCH sooner than He did....thus sparing all of this suffering. Jesus would weep over such things endlessly if he had to watch them. If Jesus is God...why did he wait so many hundreds and hundreds of years while people suffered in His World?
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Sylmar, California
817 posts, read 573,942 times
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We also have this tasty verse from Exodus 32:14

"And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people"

???

Why would God, who is supposedly perfect and loving....REPENTING of EVIL that he imagined in his heart to do unto his people? And how is God truly unchanging then?
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:05 AM
 
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The Samuel account is weird because of the placing. Everything about it is weird. My theory is it was added on later, and the Book of Samuel actually ends with David's final words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
We also have this tasty verse from Exodus 32:14

"And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people"

???

Why would God, who is supposedly perfect and loving....REPENTING of EVIL that he imagined in his heart to do unto his people? And how is God truly unchanging then?

Of course this "evil" isn't wicked evil. Think the judgments of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the flood. God changed His mind about destroying the people.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses View Post
So then Satan is a tool of God, and works for God.

So when Satan tempted Eve....was that God using Satan...or was Satan doing it out of rebelliousness?

And if Satan really rebelled...how is it that he cooperates with God?
It was Lucifer that rebelled not HaSatan...Besides, according to some Judaic scholars, the word HaSatan is a metaphor applied to fleshly desires...
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:23 AM
 
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It is probably fairly simple. The first account attributes the action to Yahweh (as virtually all such actions involving decisions of the "heart" were), while the later Chronicler - uncomfortable with the connotations of this - changed it to Satan.

He is known to be very apologetic in his retelling of Israel's history, omitting many accounts (especially from the reign of David) that were later viewed negatively. It's a classic example of inner-Biblical exegesis.
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