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Old 04-01-2014, 01:02 AM
 
296 posts, read 238,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No . . . but they can reap some unpleasant consequences from what they have sowed. Salvation is off the table, period. Losing it is not an option . . . regretting not following Christ's instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't IS.
I'm confused. You say that one cannot lose their salvation, but they can suffer consequences for wrongdoings?

You state, "Salvation is off the table" Do you mean 'losing' Salvation is off the table?
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croref View Post
Does man not have a part in the fulfillment of the promises of God? Is there no requirement of God for them to be fulled?
Yes, obedience.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio View Post
I'm confused. You say that one cannot lose their salvation, but they can suffer consequences for wrongdoings?
"He that spares the rod hates his child." Just as a human father must discipline his child to set him on the right path, so must our Heavenly Father correct us for our errors. He does it because He loves us. We don't stop being His child because we make mistakes.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
"He that spares the rod hates his child." Just as a human father must discipline his child to set him on the right path, so must our Heavenly Father correct us for our errors. He does it because He loves us. We don't stop being His child because we make mistakes.
If you were to say, "God gives us a place of purification." That sounds perilously close to 'Purgatory'!
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio View Post
If you were to say, "God gives us a place of purification." That sounds perilously close to 'Purgatory'!
The children of God are chastened in this life.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:21 PM
 
296 posts, read 238,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The children of God are chastened in this life.
Is there a scriptural basis for this statement?
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:46 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,634,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel A. Pettinicchio View Post
The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.

The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.

This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

The Bible expressly contradicts your ideas about "faith alone" and salvation. The Bible NEVER says we are justified/saved by "faith alone." In fact, the only time the phrase "faith alone" appears in the bible is to negate this proposition. James says "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24). James is talking about salvific justification because he says "Can his faith SAVE him?" (James 2:14). James is not talking about rewards but salvation proper. James' answer to this rhetorical question is a resounding NO!!!
What you've described in the bold is the Arminian Protestant perspective not the Catholic.

For example..

Can one be saved in Roman Catholicism without being a Catholic?

Can one be saved in Roman Catholicism without attending confession with a Priest?

Can on be saved in Roman Catholicism without working out penance?

etc..

Roman Catholic preaches ritualistic works salvation.. The Bible does not teach this.

There are a number of things that can be itemized in which the Catholic church is far off course from what the Bible teaches, and it's very sad to see so many deceived by this false religious system.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:59 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,634,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Al View Post
Excellent references.

Comparisons between Hebrews 10:38 and Habakkuk 2:4 reveal not just the source of Hebrews 10:38, but those pleasing to God and those not.

Hebrew 10:38, "BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM."(NASB)

Habakkuk 2:4, “Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith." (NASB)

The LORD has no pleasure in those puffed up in pride for his soul in not right within. God is pleased by the righteous who live in faith.
This is a great post Al! thank you for sharing..
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:15 PM
 
296 posts, read 238,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
What you've described in the bold is the Arminian Protestant perspective not the Catholic.

For example..

Can one be saved in Roman Catholicism without being a Catholic?

Huh?

Can one be saved in Roman Catholicism without attending confession with a Priest?

Yes!

Can on be saved in Roman Catholicism without working out penance?

etc..

No ... if I understand you correctly.

Roman Catholic preaches ritualistic works salvation.. The Bible does not teach this.

Prove it! So we can talk about it. You or I can start another thread.

There are a number of things that can be itemized in which the Catholic church is far off course from what the Bible teaches, and it's very sad to see so many deceived by this false religious system.
Please itemize, so I can explain that you are in error.

It is one thing to make accusations and back them up, it is another to take a cheap shot, without being able to defend it. Don't take the easy way out. Let me hear what you have to say, and be specific.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:23 AM
 
441 posts, read 392,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atkutuq View Post
Ya gotta read the rest of the chapter!
Understand this: God's gifts are given in promise form even His sealing believers to Himself.

Read Collisians 1 to KNOW that fact. See also 2Pet 1. Note the tiny Prep. "If" (vs23) to describe the prerequisite.

Want more "if's" spelled out?
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