Jesus Contradicting Himself: Luke 22:36 vs Matthew 26:52 (Gospel, preacher, disciples, Bible)
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"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
I know...there's going to be some tie-in from Revelation about when Jesus comes back with wrath...or some mention about how this is just a parable maybe?
Does not the Beast in Revelation do the same thing with the same attitude with those who also refuse to let him be king over them (those who refuse the mark)?
However different Jesus and the Beast really are....in this aspect they seem to have the same attitude.
I've looked for explanations for this all over the internet...about why Jesus would actually utter such a thing...and there exists no good explanation at all. In my honest opinion, he could have said this in a way that would have come off much kinder...and that would have explained what he really meant.
It's hard to believe it's actually GOD speaking when crass statements like this come out of his mouth. These are things you'd expect to hear from a low-class person...not the King of Kings.
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
I know...there's going to be some tie-in from Revelation about when Jesus comes back with wrath...or some mention about how this is just a parable maybe?
Does not the Beast in Revelation do the same thing with the same attitude with those who also refuse to let him be king over them (those who refuse the mark)?
However different Jesus and the Beast really are....in this aspect they seem to have the same attitude.
I've looked for explanations for this all over the internet...about why Jesus would actually utter such a thing...and there exists no good explanation at all. In my honest opinion, he could have said this in a way that would have come off much kinder...and that would have explained what he really meant.
It's hard to believe it's actually GOD speaking when crass statements like this come out of his mouth. These are things you'd expect to hear from a low-class person...not the King of Kings.
It is a parable...
Note how it begins:
"While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once." (19:11)
He corrects their misunderstanding in 12:
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a *far country [1] to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, **We will not have this man to reign over us.
[1] to receive a kingdom. This is what Christ meant in John 14 when He said, "I go to prepare a place for you." Too many think/teach this place is in HEAVEN. However this parable shows the 'place' is on the earth as we see in v. 15
The 'reward' of His faithful servants is not heaven, but to rule and reign with Him in His kingdom on the earth.
*far country denotes a long period of time
**We will not have this man to reign over us [does this sound familiar?] John 19:15
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Now vv. 16-26 tell how believers 'occupied' till Christ returned and are rewarded accordingly.
Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Again remember His 'enemies' above that said, "We will not have this man rule over us!"
Well, at Christ's second coming He will raise the dead in Christ to life again, change mortal to immortality, and give rewards to the faithful. However, He will also kill His enemies at that time also.
Re 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Last edited by mshipmate; 03-20-2014 at 09:38 PM..
Reason: add Scripture
It goes without saying, Troutdude. I had that prediction in my OP that someone would make such a comment but I edited it out because I thought I'd give the funbdies the benefit of the doubt.
But I've found that when people say, "I know the answer but I wouldn't waste it on the likes of you" it's usually a smoke-screen for them not really knowing the answer. It's plain as day it's a contradiction and all the "you have to understand the spiritual" 's in the world don't cover up that fact. Matthew clearly didn't know what Luke had written. How could he? He didn't even know who Luke was.
So Luke has Jesus advising His followers to sell their coat to buy a sword, presumably to defend themselves against their enemies (I mean what else do you use a sword for), while Matthew has Jesus expressly forbidding His followers to have anything to do with the sword He previous advised them to go out and buy.
I'm certain there is some explanation for this obvious contradiction but I cannot find it in any apologists' commentaries so I come here seeking the wisdom of traditional "inerrants".
Jesus was speaking as a metaphor but the disciples took it literally.
when the went out they trusted god to protect them.
Jesus was speaking as a metaphor but the disciples took it literally.
when the went out they trusted god to protect them.
It's a good point. Jesus knew the apostles were dumb as posts--the gospels make this quite clear. Jesus clearly should have talked down to their level. If we are to believe that these are Jesus' actual words (I highly doubt it-it's already pretty evident there are so many errors in the NT) then is it Jesus' fault for being too intelligent for them, or is it the apostles' fault for being too dumb?
In any case, the gospels are filled with miscommunications like this which result even to this day in gargantuan misinterpretations of what Jesus was saying. No example is more glaring than the abundance of theories about what hell really is and its duration. Again, if the Bible cannot communicate its message correctly (and it cannot, because if it could we wouldn't have 30,000+ different sects floating around, each with their own interpretations) then what good is it, except to stress a few very important universal laws like "do unto others..."
And again, apologists are going to defend these contradictions with their lives, coming up with all these half-baked interpretations to try to make sense out of the senseless.
Actually the scripture from Luke 22:36-37.....Jesus Says ``But now , he that has a purse let him take it and likewise his script, and he that has no sword let him sell his garment , and buy one ...............For I say to you that this is written must yet be accomplished in me . and He was reckoned among the transgressors for the things concerning me have an end ``........................Here is `that this is written `from Isaiah 53 :12 prophecy on the Messiah to Come [Jesus ] which God comes into full unity with Lord Jesus and they become one by His blood on the cross which made Jesus the great .....,.........,``There will I divide him a portion with the Great , and He will divide the spoil with the strong , because he has poured out his soul unto death , and he was numbered with the transgressors , and he bare the sin of many , and made intercession for the transgressors ``................. See the two swords made Jesus equal to the sinners of the world which God honored so that Jesus could be beyond then integrity of heaven and made equal to sinners so he could be a perfect intercessors for all sinners
Just read a little further and anyone can see why 2 was enough. Actually one would have been enough.
49 When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.
As you point out it fulfilled the prophecy that he would be reckoned with transgressors.
"While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once." (19:11)
He corrects their misunderstanding in 12:
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a *far country [1] to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, **We will not have this man to reign over us.
[1] to receive a kingdom. This is what Christ meant in John 14 when He said, "I go to prepare a place for you." Too many think/teach this place is in HEAVEN. However this parable shows the 'place' is on the earth as we see in v. 15
The 'reward' of His faithful servants is not heaven, but to rule and reign with Him in His kingdom on the earth.
*far country denotes a long period of time
**We will not have this man to reign over us [does this sound familiar?] John 19:15
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Now vv. 16-26 tell how believers 'occupied' till Christ returned and are rewarded accordingly.
Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Again remember His 'enemies' above that said, "We will not have this man rule over us!"
Well, at Christ's second coming He will raise the dead in Christ to life again, change mortal to immortality, and give rewards to the faithful. However, He will also kill His enemies at that time also.
Re 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Ok, you start off by saying "It is a Parable..." and then at the end of everything you wrote you tie it in to Revelation where he "will also kill His enemies at that time also."
Which is what I predicted would happen. 1) something about a Parable and 2) about how it ties in with Revelation.
But Revelation hadn't been written yet when he was speaking these things. How were these people to understand the Parable to mean anything else other than what it sounds like....which also goes against Jesus' "turn the other cheek" and "love thy enemies" teachings? Wouldn't it confuse them utterly?
Perhaps that is right...but is that concept of heaven being on the earth really consistent with all scripture? Maybe it is...with the New Heaven and New Earth that happens ultimately...
Luke 22:36:
Matthew 26:52
So Luke has Jesus advising His followers to sell their coat to buy a sword, presumably to defend themselves against their enemies (I mean what else do you use a sword for), while Matthew has Jesus expressly forbidding His followers to have anything to do with the sword He previous advised them to go out and buy.
.
It was Not unusual for the times of Luke 22 v 36 for swords to be present [ Jewish wars by Josephus III,42 [ iii,2 ]
So, Jesus having a sword present would Not indicate a hazardous time for them, but that Jesus was clearly demonstrating that the presence of a sword and ' Not using it ' that his purpose was peaceful Not armed resistance.
That is why Jesus said to return the sword [ Matthew 26 v 52; John 18 vs 10,11, 36 ]
Christians are Not to arm themselves for warfare - Rev. 13 v 10; 2nd Cor. 10 v 4 - so the heavenly resurrected Jesus did Not change his mind.
It was Not unusual for the times of Luke 22 v 36 for swords to be present [ Jewish wars by Josephus III,42 [ iii,2 ]
So, Jesus having a sword present would Not indicate a hazardous time for them, but that Jesus was clearly demonstrating that the presence of a sword and ' Not using it ' that his purpose was peaceful Not armed resistance.
That is why Jesus said to return the sword [ Matthew 26 v 52; John 18 vs 10,11, 36 ]
Christians are Not to arm themselves for warfare - Rev. 13 v 10; 2nd Cor. 10 v 4 - so the heavenly resurrected Jesus did Not change his mind.
I read the entire passage in context as others suggested I do. I still don't get what Jesus was driving at.
Apologists will say, "Naturally, you don't get it. You constantly criticize and ridicule so the Holy Spirit is going to withhold the interpretation from you."
But is that how this system works? Or is simply asking the Holy Spirit for understanding, which I have done, a sure-fire guarantee that He will reveal the truth to me, which He hasn't?
Here's the passage:
Part 1
35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
Part 2
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
Part 3
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.
What does Part 2 have to do with Part 1?
Part 1: Did you need anything when you went out empty-handed?
No.
Part 2: Now go out and sell your belongings and buy swords because (???) the prophecies about me are about to be fulfilled [meaning, "Now that I am going to be killed, you are going to be alone, so you will need swords to defend yourselves (????).]"
Part 3: We have 2 swords between the 12 of us, Lord.
That's all you need (????)
I honestly think I wouldn't be the first to say this entire thing is bizarre and unintelligible. Why does all this have to be so cryptic and cultish? Can't Jesus speak in plain English so the reader can understand what He is trying to say?
Quote:
The interpretation of the verses can follow either a strictly physical direction in which swords must be used, or a nonphysical one in which swords must not be used, during Jesus’ last hours. The surest and clearest direction is the nonliteral one, but first we analyze why the literal one will not fit into Luke 22:34-38 and into the passage about the arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane (Luke 22:39-53).
So, more than being cryptic underneath, there is the clear implication on the surface that Jesus wants His disciples to go out and buy swords to defend themselves. But when they say they already have two of them He says, "Cool. That's all you need". Really? Two swords to defend 12 apostles? Are ten going to stand behind the two with the swords? And which apostles are going to wield them? Peter and John? And when they are killed, which of the other ten are going to be brave enough to pick them up?
Like I said: bizarre, bizarre. Unintelligible.
So if you want to read a treatise on 5 verses, here is ONE interpretation. And bear in mind there are another thousand interpretations waiting right around the corner:
This kind of thread would not even exsist if you would have taken time to look up the definition of the words "sword."
The word in the verses above is machaira, a large knife that one carried for protection from wild animals. Why can't a person have a knife [or a gun] for protection? And furthermore is carrying such a knife, [as above] "living by the sword?" Which BTW is also an idiom which indicates one lives a life of aggressive violence.
Also we can reasonably suppose Christ didn't mean the words to be taken literally since His disciples obviously misunderstood Him. How do we know this? They replied they had two knives, and Christ answered, "Two swords are sufficient." Or in other words how would 2 knives be sufficient for 12 men if Christ meant it as literal?
The other word is rhomphaia and is an actual sword worn over the shoulder and is only used in these passages:
Lu. 2:35(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Rev 1:16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 2:12And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Now regards to Matt. 26:52 this is what one calls 'proverbial wisdom ' and is not meant to be taken literally. Why? Because obviously every single person who's drawn a knife [or a gun] hasn't died in like manner.
A similar example:
Isaiah 50:11 Behold, all you that kindle a fire, that take the sword: go, fall into the fire you have kindled, and fall by sword you have taken.
This is a Hebraism meaning "nothing can hinder God's Will from being done.'
I had a look and every instance relating to the 'Swords' incident including the reference to 'put up the sword - everyone who lives by the sword will perish' all use the term 'machairon' or 'machaire' rather than 'rhomphaia'. Could you indicate exactly where 'Rhomphaia' appears?
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