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Old 12-08-2007, 07:09 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,636,772 times
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HE IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL AND HE DECIDES WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON.
Jesus prayed for the Father to forgive those who put Him to death "for they know not what they do." As far as I know they did not ask for forgiveness concerning this, but Jesus prayed that they would be forgiven. They acted in ignorance, as I as a Christian, believe all do, who do not know the Lord. They are described as blinded, held captive, under the sway or power of the evil one. The apostle Paul described himself as the chiefest of sinners but God did something for him that brought him to his knees. He then had no choice but to believe and even this was due to the power of God. He had a eye-opening experience and so I believe that all who are lost upon their death will have an eye opening experience and they will "see" and believe in that day. If God did it for Paul, the chiefest of sinners, I believe that He will do it for anyone. But those who are called to be believers today, who are to live by faith today, are blessed and are experiencing salvation today according to the will of God. We are described as the firstfruits among His creatures and we have been brought forth by the word of truth, in the exercise of His will (James 1:17) Jesus said, "Blessed are those who did not see, yet believed." John 10:29. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-08-2007 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 12-08-2007, 07:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Love is good and so this tells me that everything God, the Potter does stems from love.
The problem with love is that it sometimes complicates things; love is not black & white.
Many women (and men) who are in abusive relationships simply do not leave because they love their abusive partner. I think that if they did not loved their abuser they'd either left, or killed, their abuser a long time ago.
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Old 12-08-2007, 07:22 AM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Love is good and so this tells me that everything God, the Potter does stems from love.
Quote:
The problem with love is that it sometimes complicates things; love is not black & white.
Many women (and men) who are in abusive relationships simply do not leave because they love their abusive partner. I think that if they did not loved their abuser they'd either left, or killed, their abuser a long time ago.
Hi Tricky D., I understand what you are saying, but God is not a human being. He is described as love, not simply as having love and human love is often flawed.

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son, that we might live through Him." 1 John 4:7-9
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Old 12-08-2007, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
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I see the big problem with people who can't accept God, and even with people who do, is that they try to humanize Him..It is very hard to imagine God in the sense that he is pure love, something we cannot understand.. Pure love doesnt hate, doesn't punish, doesn't condemn, doesn't test, and is indivisible..Sin cannot be in the presence of God..IMO, this is one of the reasons there is a Christ who told us that noone comes to the Father except through him..He is the middleman who is worthy to approach the Father with our prayers spoken in love and truth and sent in faith.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
Quote:
Hi Tricky D., I understand what you are saying, but God is not a human being. He is described as love, not simply as having love and human love is often flawed.
You misunderstand me, I am not humanising or dehumanising God. I am trying to explain that the concept of love and the act of love and agape love are all different things.
For example: vegetarians say that not eating meat is an act of love, that if you love animals (and life) you will not eat meat.
I believe that saying that not eating meat is an act of love is claiming that nature had it wrong from the beginning. The vegetarian is humanising nature itself by believing that death or violence is evil. In essence the vegetarian is saying that God made a mistake by allowing death.
A lacto-vegetarian friend of mine once told me that it is unnatural for man to drink animal milk and that a human should only drink human milk.
I told him that it was a good thing that he didn’t eat meat; otherwise he’d only eat human meat.

To me death is natural, without death our planet would have been uninhabitable filled to the brim with life. Death is the only thing that makes sure that life is possible. Death is essential to life because this is the only method in which we know that the individual makes room for others to live.
So, when you are a carnivore killing is only natural. Killing in order to survive is not evil, it is only natural. The only thing that is evil in regard to taking a live to survive is for a carnivore is to kill more than he needs to live.

So the concept of agape love is not an emotion, it is an ideal.
The thing is that the only proof of agape love is death itself. Everyone dies so that others may live. Death is not human, it has no emotion, it does not discriminate and it does not play favouritism.
Everyone dies, whether they are rich, young, evil, etc.

Nature is.
Humanity trying to explain nature through good (life) and evil (death) is only an exercise in egocentrism.
So far man has only been able to explain nature from his POV.

Last edited by Tricky D; 12-08-2007 at 08:25 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:36 AM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
I told him that it was a good thing that he didn’t eat meat; otherwise he’d only eat human meat.
Indeed!

Quote:
So the concept of agape love is not an emotion, it is an ideal.

Hi, Tricky D., I believe that God is described as agape love, and that it refers to benevolence, doing what is good or best for others. God who is described as agape love, is doing that is good for us, meaning that He is not abusing us. God, agape love, is described as the Potter and we as clay, meaning that whatever He does in molding and shaping us according to His purposes, is good for us and stems from agape love, doing what is best for us. Thanks for sharing and God bless.
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:45 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,636,772 times
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Quote:
To me death is natural, without death our planet would have been uninhabitable filled to the brim with life. Death is the only thing that makes sure that life is possible. Death is essential to life because this is the only method in which we know that the individual makes room for others to live.
I agree with some of what you share, that death does make room for our planet to be inhabited by others. But I believe it is also described as the last enemy of Christ. An enemy means that it is in opposition to, I believe, and this means to me that death is not to be a permanent part of the picture. It is to be made of no effect or rendered powerless, not able to operate for all of eternity. It has a purpose for now, but eventually its purpose will be done. Think about all of those planets out there, Tricky D, which may not be inhabitable now, but I believe that God has a greater purpose for them in the future. God bless.
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:48 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,561 posts, read 14,353,064 times
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Hi, Tricky D., I believe that God is described as agape love, and that it refers to benevolence, doing what is good or best for others. God who is described as agape love, is doing that is good for us, meaning that He is not abusing us.
Only doing good for others and not being good for you is not what I consider agape love, but can be a reason for a woman to stay with her abusive partner.
How can this be agape love?
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:00 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 13,636,772 times
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Quote:
Hi, Tricky D., I believe that God is described as agape love, and that it refers to benevolence, doing what is good or best for others. God who is described as agape love, is doing that is good for us, meaning that He is not abusing us.
Quote:
Only doing good for others and not being good for you is not what I consider agape love, but can be a reason for a woman to stay with her abusive partner.
How can this be agape love?
Tricky D., I was talking about this in relation to God, that God does what is good for us and is not abusing us by the fact that He is described as the Potter and we as clay and by the fact that He owns us.... I was responding to this statement by you


Quote:
The more I hear this, the more I'm inclined to believe that Christians view God as their absolute master and humanity as slaves, where Christians are the uncle Toms*.
I mean to whom can slaves complain when they are being abused by their master?
I believe that you were refering to the statement that God is the Potter and we are the clay. God is not the abusive master and we are not cowering slaves. God is the loving Potter and we are the moldable clay. He is making something beautiful with us...

Quote:
Only doing good for others and not being good for you is not what I consider agape love, but can be a reason for a woman to stay with her abusive partner.
How can this be agape love?

Haven't we had this discussion before? ??? Agape love demonstrated by a woman who is in an abusive relationship does not mean that she stays with the abusive partner. How would that be agape love, encouraging the partner to continue to sin against God by abusing her in this way? God has instructed husbands to love their wives, care for them, take care of them as they would care for themselves. The abuser does not do this and I don't believe that agape love would be the kind of love shown by the victim if she stays in the situation. Agape love would be praying for the abuser, praying for him to get help, not hating the person, but not staying in an abusive situation where the person continues the abuse of the person that he is supposed to love and cherish. Agape love says no sometimes. Now, I know we have had this conversation!! God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-08-2007 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:11 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,561 posts, read 14,353,064 times
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If God forgives everything and agape love is not always accepting, then why make a difference between good and bad if in the end everyone will be forgiven and no one will be refused (to enter heaven)?
To me it seems that you're saying that actions have no consequences, because in the end God forgives all.
If my assumption is correct, I just don't see the need for a morality.
On earth as in heaven
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